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Author Topic: Psychotria viridis propagation  (Read 169806 times)

Mandrake

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #135 on: May 08, 2014, 06:16:45 PM »

No news for veteran growers, but I wanted to add this new Psychotria Cartaginensis Carthagenensis (thank you, EIRN) family to the thread. I really feel tempted to leave it as is...

Mandrake
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EIRN

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #136 on: May 08, 2014, 06:59:48 PM »

Nice P. carthagenensis, Mandrake. This is a fast growing Psychotria (in comparison with other species), and it flowers very fast too.
I planted one cutting just to learn how to propagate (before I get my first viridis). the little plant blossomed with less than 15 cm in high. I find the photo and post here, soon.
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TBM

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #137 on: May 08, 2014, 08:34:48 PM »

Nice  8) Based on how large the pot looks that you've got it growing in, it looks like you could let it get at least 3-4 times taller before thinking about transplanting, although it's hard to see in the picture how deep that pot is.

happyconcacti

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #138 on: May 23, 2014, 04:14:04 PM »

I took them out at 3 hr and 50 min and potted them in
1 : 0.75 : 1     
cactus soil (super soil brand, palm and cacti mix) : vermiculite : perlite
For each concentration, I did two leaves. One with the main stem snapped in 4 spots, the other unsnapped.

Wow, this has been a loooooooong journey getting leaves to propagate. Before you read this whole thing, essentially nothing new was found :D


GA3 Experiment Results and Discussion

The leaves were kept in a propagation chamber at nearly 100% humidity and about 85F (29C).

Please see This Post for picture

This turned out to be a terrible way to pot P. viridis leaves. They were too close together in my opinion. Once they started rooting, three problems arose: 1) the roots tangled with each other making the whole tray virtually impossible to separate 2) there was very little room for baby plants to come up 3) upon digging up the leaves, I found that my watering method (top watering with frequent misting) had been completely ineffective as the soil beneath the leaves was practically bone dry. Bottom watering should have been used. They didn't seem to be affected at all by GA3 soaking.

Overall, the results from this whole tray were dismal. A mere 2 baby plants from all those leaves :( I repotted those two babies quickly because the whole tray was being overrun with algae (lack of air flow I'm guessing). Unfortunately, upon digging up the leaves, many had rotted below the soil and never produced baby plants.

"Expirement 2" Results
This was basically to see if cutting a leaf into sections would be better than leaving it whole after roots had developed.

The leaf that I left whole did the best Experiment 2 "Control Leaf" (picture #3). Once the roots at each joint were about 1" (2.5cm) long, I potted it in a 6" (15cm) diameter pot using Bach's soil mix (1:0.75:1 potting soil, vermiculite, perlite). This allowed the leaf to lay pretty flat. The majority of the leaf was covered with about 0.5" (~1.3cm) of Bach's soil mix.

This single leaf produced 12 baby plants in one cluster from the very end of the leaf. None of the other nodes sprouted baby plants, I'm guessing because they couldn't reach the soil surface through the leaf. (If I had a do-over, I would try the infamous horizontal potting method).

About 3 days ago, I separated all of the baby plants into their own pots and they're doing very well (picture 1). The other nodes had very healthy roots that were big and thick. Instead of potting it again, I sent it to a member here on STS (they have a near perfect climate for outdoor P. viridis) so they could hopefully use the same leaf to produce more baby plants.

One of the leaf sections, with the stem tip, produced 2 baby plants (picture 2). These are the biggest, thickest P. viridis plants that have come up. It seems that cutting the leaf into sections will drastically reduce the number of baby plants. With this reduction in number, there appears to be an increase in plant size and growth rate.

The other sections of the cut up leaf all had healthy roots and would likely produce baby plants. I sent these to yet another STS member so they can try their hand an P. viridis propagation.

Greenhouse Results and Discussion
Furthermore, I tried a different tray in a greenhouse. These didn't do very well. I'm guessing that the humidity fluctuations (near 90% when warm, down to almost 20% when cool) and temperature fluctuations (90F, 32C when warm and down to 50F, 10C when cool) in the greenhouse were too drastic for P. viridis. The greenhouse is located in a desert environment.

As baby plants would pop up, they would dry out and die back. I covered the tray with a humidity dome and this still didn't seem to help. Unfortunately I am not the caretaker of the greenhouse so there might be many, many other factors at play here.

What Worked Well for HCC?
In summary, when starting P. viridis leaves, it seems easiest to start them by:
1) snap the main stem in 4-6 spots
2) plant in 1:0.75:1 of cacti soil : vermiculite : perlite for 3 weeks
3) Put in cup of water for 1 week
4) Cut leaf into sections based on rooted nodes
5) Re-plant in 1:0.75:1 (continued in next paragraph)

Using the "vertical" method of potting the leaves, it appears to be better to pot them in individual pots that are large enough for the leaf to lay relatively flat with about 25% of the leaf tip sticking out of the soil. I would definitely try the "horizontal" method in the future.

Greenhouses with large fluctuations in humidity and temperature seem to be unsuited for P. viridis propagation. Consistent 100% humidity and 85F (29C) seem to work very well for leaf propagation.

Furthermore, once the plants were about 4" (10cm) tall and larger leaves have started forming, the humidity can be dropped far below 100%. If kept at 100% humidity, the leaves appear to grow in a curled, gnarled fashion. At lower humidity levels, they seem to grow flat and consistently.

Hcc's Recommendations
1) snap leaves in 4-6 locations, don't cut them into sections
2) use Bach's soil mix
3) pot leaves "horizontally"
4) keep humidity near 100% and temps around 85F (29C)
5) patience
6) more patience
7) even more patience
8.) Read Bach's and Gator's recommendations, they know what's up with P. viridis :D


Happy Growing,
Hcc
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 05:49:15 PM by happyconcafe »
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TBM

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #139 on: May 23, 2014, 04:47:59 PM »

Excellent write up of your experiment results!

Furthermore, once the plants were about 4" (10cm) tall and larger leaves have started forming, the humidity can be dropped far below 100%. If kept at 100% humidity, the leaves appear to grow in a curled, gnarled fashion. At lower humidity levels, they seem to grow flat and consistently.

I recall seeing those curled gnarling leaves when I last had P. viridis propagating, and I wasn't ever sure why it did that even though I had the humidity... How far below 100% humidity have you been able to bring your plants down to now?

happyconcacti

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #140 on: May 23, 2014, 05:02:26 PM »

How far below 100% humidity have you been able to bring your plants down to now?

:) Thank you for the kind words.

About 30 to 40% for some the bigger ones. They're completely out of propagation chambers and are subject to the ambient humidity.

The smaller ones are still in the propagation chamber at 90 to 100%

Hcc
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SoulGrower

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #141 on: May 23, 2014, 06:32:59 PM »

Hey guys!  I have a couple of questions..

HCC you described the following:

What Worked Well for HCC?
In summary, when starting P. viridis leaves, it seems easiest to start them by:
1) snap the main stem in 4-6 spots
2) plant in 1:0.75:1 of cacti soil : vermiculite : perlite for 3 weeks
3) Put in cup of water for 1 week
4) Cut leaf into sections based on rooted nodes
5) Re-plant in 1:0.75:1 (continued in next paragraph)

Just to clarify, after step 2, you are digging the leaf up and then putting it in water?  How much of the leaf should be in water?  Is this method to speed up root formation and then you re-bury the cut leafs to wait for sprouts?

I also have a question about setting the leaf horizontally.  Does the leaf lay on top of the medium with the roots buried, or do you cover the leaf with medium.  If so, how much of the leaf should be left exposed for photosynthesis?

Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else.. just trying to get a better understanding
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happyconcacti

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #142 on: May 23, 2014, 08:53:27 PM »

Just to clarify, after step 2, you are digging the leaf up and then putting it in water?  How much of the leaf should be in water?  Is this method to speed up root formation and then you re-bury the cut leafs to wait for sprouts?

I should have explained this more clearly. I uprooted the leaf for two reasons: 1) to take photos 2) to compare the root formation versus the leaf I left in water. The leaf planted in the soil mix had better root formation.

So, overall, I'd suggest putting fresh leaves in the Bach soil mix to develop roots.


I also have a question about setting the leaf horizontally.  Does the leaf lay on top of the medium with the roots buried, or do you cover the leaf with medium.  If so, how much of the leaf should be left exposed for photosynthesis?

Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else.. just trying to get a better understanding

Always feel free to ask questions for clarification. :) If you don't understand, then its likely that others don't as well.

Horizontal by Saros:
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg2965#msg2965

Vertical by Frog Pajamas:
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg5910#msg5910

Hcc's "Vertical", Picture 4, "Control" label:
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg5986#msg5986

Also, in the picture below it shows the horizontal, pure vertical, then the method I used on the very successful leaf mentioned a few posts above. The soil covered the majority of the leaf. I would recommend trying the horizontal approach.


Hcc
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 09:10:26 PM by happyconcafe »
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Frog Pajamas

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #143 on: May 23, 2014, 10:53:59 PM »

Those plants look great, HCC! Nice work, and thanks for the good info.
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SoulGrower

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #144 on: May 24, 2014, 01:04:47 AM »

Ahhh!!!  Thank you so much for the clarification HCC!  That diagram really cleared it up for me!  Perfect.  Then I'll def give the horizontal a go  8)
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SoulGrower

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #145 on: July 10, 2014, 11:28:02 PM »

The problem with separating the babies from the leaf is that as long as the leaf is green it is photosynthesizing and thus feeding the baby. It's like it has its own relatively huge solar panel.

My experience has been that the baby's growth slows way down, akin to starting from seed, if I separate them.  But as you have discovered, almost any leaf fragment will throw more babies.

How long are we talking here?  As a general rule of thumb, at what point would most recommend seperating babies?  I got my first sprouts about a month ago, yay!, and they're a couple inches tall now with largest set of leaves about an inch in length.

Also, I downloaded EIRNs visual guide and noticed his plants are getting direct sun (at least in the photo).  My understanding is that they should be kept in the shade.  Is it better for them to get some full sun? and if so, how many hours a day is safe?

Sorry if this has already been covered and I just forgot... or missed it, skimmed through again but didn't see anything about this specifically
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Frog Pajamas

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #146 on: July 11, 2014, 02:45:08 AM »

Unless you have some pressing reason to separate them, just leave the babies attached to the mother leaf as long as its alive. It will continue to boost the seedlings as long as its still photosynthesizing.

PV are understory plants that do better with shade. Mine are under a large tree so that they get a few hours of morning sun then shade from mid-morning on.  I bounced them through varying light conditions before finding this one they like.
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happyconcacti

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #147 on: July 15, 2014, 11:53:22 PM »

I got my first sprouts about a month ago, yay!, and they're a couple inches tall now with largest set of leaves about an inch in length.

YES!!!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D ;)

I separated the babies from each other and the mother leaf when they were about 3" (7cm) to 4" (10cm) tall. They had about 3 or 4 sets of leaves. I'm not sure if this is recommended, but they sure have done well.

From what I've ready, leaving the babies attached for as long as possible is best.

Hcc
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 11:55:43 PM by happyconcacti »
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EIRN

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #148 on: August 25, 2014, 04:04:58 PM »

Also, I downloaded EIRNs visual guide and noticed his plants are getting direct sun (at least in the photo).  My understanding is that they should be kept in the shade.  Is it better for them to get some full sun? and if so, how many hours a day is safe?

Pic get uncorrect impression of full sunlight...it is under 50% shader (sunlight filter cover)....young adult plant can recive morning/afternoom direct sunlight (in a tropical site).

You can separete baybies, but is better do not....do this only if you need more seedlings and don't have the chance of new leaves.
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gator

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Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
« Reply #149 on: August 30, 2014, 03:05:25 PM »

I've always done the "Hcc's verticle" approach w/ great success. I can't wait to try out the "Horizontal" method. I've got so many plants now they're self propagating. When observing the fallen leaves that have naturally rooted, it appears that the leaf can fall and land any which way (upside down) and have great chances of rooting.
I was thinking of experimenting by taking a bunch of dead leaves from the yard (a mix of various levels of composted leaves) and laying them in a mat, throwing a bunch of Viridis leaves down on top of the mat of dead leaves, then covering the Viridis w/ more of the leaf/compost mixture and leaving it in a damp, warm, shady place.. The humidity is often 80-100% in my climate. This technique seems effortless and natural in a way, I bet the Viridis would be easy to pick out.
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