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Gardening Area => Plant Propagation => Topic started by: TBM on June 14, 2013, 07:19:27 am

Title: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on June 14, 2013, 07:19:27 am
I can not take claim to all of the info and ideas below, much of my method is from my own research online, with a bit of my own twist added.

Supplies:

Viable mature Psychotria viridis leaves
Large glass jar (mine used to hold pickles)
Small enough pot that will fit into the jar (I'm actually using plastic solo cups, be sure to make holes for drainage)
Pine bark based soil or Sphagnum moss or perlite (no peat based soil), there are several other options for soil
Rooting hormone such as Indole-3-butyric acid (strictly optional, roots will still form without it)
African violet fertilizer (optional as well)

Before we begin, let me say that this plant is a SLOW GROWER, so please have patience.

There are several different methods for planting the leaves to prepare them to propagate, I've heard of people burying them at a 45° angle with most of the leaf protruding, or there is the 'accordion' method, where you break the main stem in several places, and then partially bury the result. There are also stories I've read where they would actually break the leaf into pieces, and then bury each of them separately, and still getting positive results. Personally I've chosen to use both burying at a 45°, and to use the accordion method. Next you will want to water the soil until the water runs out of the drainage holes. Since I chose to use fertilizer, I diluted it into the water before watering the leaves (as per the label's directions).

So now that you've got your leaves planted in the method of your choosing, the idea now is to use the glass jar as a makeshift terrarium; hopefully it's been cleaned out and all labels removed. What I've done is use the lid of the jar as the base for the pot, so the jar is actually sitting upside down with the pot inside siting right side up. At first I was a bit worried about it running out of air after a while, so I've been opening up the jar about one a week to give it fresh air and that seems to be working just fine. You will want to place your newly made terrarium somewhere that it has partial sunlight. Keep in mind, this plant's habitat is under the canopy in a rain forest, so it's used to having less light.

Depending on method chosen, environment, health of the leaves, etc., it will be slow.  It can take anywhere from 1-3 months before you see any roots forming, and another 1-3 months until you see the new plant start to shoot up. It might even take longer than that! :o So whatever you do, Be Patient, and you should see results  8)

This is after roughly two months of growth... sorry if the quality of the pictures is poor
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on June 14, 2013, 07:39:35 am
I also have another terrarium set up which I've recently attached a small heating pad to the side of it, in a way it's an experiment to see if the additional heat (thus making it closer to what it would have in a rain forest) would make it grow faster.

Once the plants become large enough where they'd be running out of room, you'd be able to remove them from the jars. When mine get large enough to remove from the terrariums I'll be sure to inform you all of the results. Sure it's just a start to my garden, but progress is progress :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: nobody on June 14, 2013, 01:02:19 pm
Very nice, thanks for posting this. Ever have any problems with mold?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on June 14, 2013, 07:46:23 pm
So far I have had no problems with mold, I believe I avoided mold issues by not using a peat based soil to start the leaves in. Pine bark based soil is also slightly acidic, this is good for keeping mold at bay as well.


[New edit]: I have had rot issues with P. nexus using the jar method, but that was mostly my fault for accidentally using an organic soil that was past it's use by date :-[  It began to rot even with opening the jar at least once a day for fresh air, so be sure to check your soil is good for sowing ;)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Sunshine on June 24, 2013, 02:48:02 am
I use natural thyme oil mold killer diluted in a spray bottle with a squirt of lemon juice to spray them.
I used a garden soil-potting soil-perlite mix at a ratio of 1-1-6
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on June 24, 2013, 06:28:14 am
I was considering using a potting soil/perlite mix to transplant them into once they're big enough, but I hadn't really given it too much thought since that's a few months away still for me, if you've had success with that ratio then I see no reason why I shouldn't do the same  :)

I like your use of natural mold killers instead of some commercially made ready-to-use chemical killer too ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on June 26, 2013, 04:19:26 am
Changing to a different potting mix after they root and shoot can cause transplant stress, too often seriously enough to kill the plant. I have settled on rooting them in the same mix that they will end up in as adult plants. I use regular commercial potting soil amended with perlite and maybe some vermiculite if I happen to have it at the time. 2:1:1 or even 1:1:1 ratio.

I use 4 inch plastic pots with three leaves each and place the pot in a large ziploc bag. Does the same job as the pickle jar. That way I don't have to buy pickles (which I don't care for anyway) and there are no worries about shattered glass should I drop it.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on June 26, 2013, 04:48:47 am
A large plastic bag will in fact do the same as one of the jars I've used, I just get them already empty from a friend who's a pickle fanatic :o

You make a good point about transplant shock, I only plan to transplant once the root system starts to run out of room in the pot it's in, usually a good sign that a plant is ready for a bigger pot is when you see roots coming out of the drainage holes at the bottom of the pot.

Perhaps I could use a mix of potting soil, pine bark soil (which is what they're in right now), and perlite (maybe some vermiculite)? Either way I've got time to decide on a soil mix until they're ready to be transplanted again into something larger (one that they won't outgrow for a while)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on June 27, 2013, 09:55:30 pm
Update: the mini-terrarium I added a small heat pad to as an experiment ended up being bunk... turns out it was too much heat (even though it was the smallest terrarium heat pad I could find) and it wilted, turned yellow and died :'( Good thing I still had the other two control group terrariums which the plants are thriving :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Praetorian on June 30, 2013, 03:36:42 am
ive got psychotria outside. Its rooted well, 2 small leaves.  I think ill make my own growlog.  Anyway, good tek here!  Where do you find such nice viridis leaves though, is my question.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on June 30, 2013, 05:46:19 am
I received my freshly picked leaves from someone I know on another forum I occasionally visit (The Nook), he mentioned that they came from his P. viridis mother plant which is over 6 years old, so in a way I'm lucky just to have the little sprouts that I do ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on July 11, 2013, 03:01:17 am
Where do you find such nice viridis leaves though, is my question.

In my back yard!  ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: olyd88 on July 12, 2013, 01:05:31 pm
Where do you find such nice viridis leaves though, is my question.

In my back yard!  ;D

Nice! How old is your viridis at your backyard?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on July 13, 2013, 05:08:12 am
The seeds were planted in Sept '94. Some of them are over eight feet tall now.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: olyd88 on July 13, 2013, 05:23:07 am
Great! can you upload some photo? one more question is, How many inches/feet a healthy viridis plant can reach in height for one year?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: PaulKruger on July 13, 2013, 09:30:26 am
Well done TBM, it is nice to see people explaining the finer techniques of their TEK.

I saw another method done by a university student as a project who actually rooted the leaves by cutting the stalk end of the leaf off and putting that around 1/2 inch in between the two sides of a wet kitchen towel. They did not specify this, but one would assume the guys used a rooting hormone of sorts here. The entire setup is then stuck into a Ziploc bag and once a day the baggy is opened and new CO2 rich air from you lungs used to fill the baggie.

After a couple of weeks the leaves seemed to have rooted very well and were ready for transplanting. I will try to find the details and post them here ASAP.

Thanks again TBM
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on July 14, 2013, 07:04:31 pm
Great! can you upload some photo? one more question is, How many inches/feet a healthy viridis plant can reach in height for one year?

Pics at post #86 here:

http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=78927&st=60

You have to register as a member but it's worth it!

I never actually measured their growth but maybe about six inches a year since my plants are 18 years old and the tallest is just over 8 feet.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on July 15, 2013, 04:09:46 am
Impressive pictures to say the least! Those are worthy of sharing on the STS Forum Plant Gallery
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on July 17, 2013, 01:28:06 am
Time for update pics! Notice how in pic 4 the plants are much taller, but have only two sets of leaves (and it's two separate plants), while pic 5 it is shorter (and only one plant), yet already has the third set of leaves coming in, the only difference? Pic 4's plant faces a south window, while pic 5's plant faces a west window. I don't think which window affected how many plants formed, but rather I think it may have affected what the plant focuses it's growth on (height vs foliage)

I don't see myself trying to separate the two baby plants in pic 4, if there was more than 2 maybe but I don't see it being a problem.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Seed Collector on July 17, 2013, 01:46:58 am
Looking nice.

Very nice.  :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on July 19, 2013, 10:05:52 pm
Good work there TBM. You are well on your way!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Shpongle Lover on August 01, 2013, 02:30:43 pm
Changing to a different potting mix after they root and shoot can cause transplant stress, too often seriously enough to kill the plant. I have settled on rooting them in the same mix that they will end up in as adult plants. I use regular commercial potting soil amended with perlite and maybe some vermiculite if I happen to have it at the time. 2:1:1 or even 1:1:1 ratio.

Bach:

I have all those supplies on hand from other grow projects done in the past  ;) and have one quick question on the 2: 1: 1 ratio you recommend.  That is by volume, correct?  I know it's not critical and that ballpark is fine, but just wanted clarification.

I agree wholeheartedly about transplant stress, and it would be a shame to lose plants and months of time due to stress.  Partly it's laziness, and partly it's drive to succeed, but my plan is to cultivate viridis in a fairly large pot from the outset so it will be a LONG time before transplant is needed, if ever.   :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: New Wisdom on August 01, 2013, 05:49:39 pm
I hope mine do fine after transplanting.  I have mine in 1/1/.25 perlite/coir/washed sand. 
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on August 01, 2013, 07:01:24 pm
Thanks for everyone's input! It's nice to read what others have been using as soil for their P. viridis plants, all good info to know!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on August 01, 2013, 07:54:09 pm
They generally don't seem too picky about the soil. Pretty much any standard mix will suit them fine, with one caveat which should be clear by now: a lighter mix like I mentioned above works better when rooting out leaves. You can go heavier on the organic component once they get bigger.

And yes Shpongle Lover, 1:1:1 ratio by volume. 
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on August 04, 2013, 04:43:53 pm
Has anyone tried rooting in water? I read on a site that sells unrooted leaves that it works as an alternative to soil.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Greentoe on August 04, 2013, 05:03:51 pm
I know I've rooted psychotria alba leaf cuttings in a cup of water. I don't imagine rooting p viridis would be much different. I've also found puttin them in a cup filled with moist perlite then putting that in a bag seems to work pretty well. They seem to root quicker like that than just putting them in water.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on August 05, 2013, 03:23:22 am
Yeah, it can work, but soil of some sort works so much better. I don't do it that way myself and can't really recommend it.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Saros on August 05, 2013, 06:56:49 pm
So i've got roots all over the place right now. I have pots with leaves rooting in random places where I thought there was a good chance they'd be happy. And also in a variety of substrates... some in a mix of potting soil/coir/pine bark/perlite, some in straight pine bark, some in just perlite, and some in a mix of perlite and vermiculite.. it looks like all of them have starting putting out roots now.

So now that i'm thinking "what's next?" I'm wondering, since transplant shock was brought up, what should I do with the ones in just perlite, pine bark, or perlite and verm to increase their chances of survival? There's not much in the way of nutrients in there so I'll have to move them at some point.. but when? Should I do it now before they get accustomed to what they're in? 

Eventually I aim to pot them all in the mix of potting soil, perlite, coir, pine bark since my Albas seem really happy there.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on August 05, 2013, 07:31:50 pm
You can try to lesson transplant shock by including whatever you've chosen to root the leaves in into the mixture that they will be transplanted in. Since I have started the plants I intend to keep in pine bark, I will be blending pine bark into the potting soil that will be used once they're big enough for the next transplant, hopefully that will be in my favor.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on August 06, 2013, 12:12:10 am
Saros, you've got lots of time to think about what's next because you won't be seeing shoots for a while yet.

That said, you can amend the mix now, or use just a slightly heavier mix when you do pot them up.  The trick is to make the new mix similar enough that the plants don't go "WTF?" and stress out.
Title: Psychotria viridis propgation from leaf
Post by: PermieGing on August 21, 2013, 12:51:59 am
This is a nexus thread that seems to very effectively and thoroughly cover viridis propagation from leaf.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=28787 (https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=28787)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propgation from leaf
Post by: TBM on August 21, 2013, 01:09:56 am
Now that's what I call a *** ton of P. viridis sprouts! That person really knows what they're doing 8)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propgation from leaf
Post by: Mandrake on August 21, 2013, 02:29:44 am
Thank you PermieGing, I'm merging this thread with the thread we have already working for Psychotria Viridis Propagation, to keep the references together and avoid title repetition.

Kind regards,

Mandrake
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Psihkal on August 21, 2013, 11:31:53 am
This is great info thanks TBM! ;D

I plan on starting some Viridis this week or the next however I still have a month to go till spring is in full swing...  I was very interested in your terrarium idea tho.
Ive got an old terrarium setup that i was planning on using to start them off. Id use a normal plastic pot tho to add the soil mix to. Think ill use a Pine bark based soil, soiless mix, perlite/vermiculite (2:1:2) maybe have a layer of hydroton balls for drainage at the bottom.

(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w370/kylesmiles1/21082013020-1.jpg)
This is my terrarium idea. Sorry for the shitty photo. Its basically 2 plastic tubs one in the other. The bottom tub will have water in it and a fish tank heater to keep the temperature of the water at 35 degrees celcius. Im hoping this will keep my cutting just below 35 degrees and will keep humidity in the terrarium at max. The top tub will be set into the water and the cutting will be placed into the terrarium with the lid placed on top. 

Im wondering what were the specs of why your terrarium didnt work? What were your temps, and how often did you open it to give it air? Maybe it needs to be sprayed once a day with water?

Many thanks



Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on August 21, 2013, 06:10:47 pm
I like your set up!

I think it's just from my plants getting bigger now and they're breathing more so it's possibly affecting the humidity, I've tried measuring the temperature inside the jars before and they were usually around 80-90° F, but I haven't thus far any means to measure humidity. I was thinking of adding some hydrated sphagnum moss wrapped around the pots in my jars to see if that doesn't up the humidity, similar to a perlite layer only it won't 'spill' when I go to open the container (since the lid is the bottom).

EDIT: Mandrake mentioned an easier method to raise humidity where you use hydrated sponges (maybe a little H2O2 in water to prevent mold) in plastic baggies which have holes cut into them. You would then put those into the sealed terrarium.

I've usually been opening the jars roughly 1-2 a week for fresh air so I don't think that's part of the issue. For your set up you'd probably be good with opening yours and fanning it every once in a while for fresh air exchange.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: nobody on August 22, 2013, 12:26:37 pm
walmart carries very cheap indoor / outdoor digital thermometers that also measure humidity. They also record the min / max for temp and humidity so you can see how much it fluctuates, for $15 it is well worth it.

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Psihkal on August 23, 2013, 10:46:40 am
Cool well as I have my leaf cuttings sitting in sealed plastic bags right now Im planning on getting this on the go today. Anyone know the best way to store leaf cuttings? Id like to try 1 at first and if it fails try the next and then the final one.

I like the sponge idea I think I will give that a try aswell as keep a bottle of distilled water for spraying when airing the tubs.
This idea is stolen from a mushroom terrarium idea as It was used as a fruiting chamber for the mushies. They needed 20degrees celcius heat and also almost max humidty so im hoping seeing as they were fine with the humidty levels in the terrarium the viridis will be aswell.

I will post a short log here to allow members to learn from my mistakes/success ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Saros on August 23, 2013, 08:24:56 pm
I'm probably not the best person to answer this, but I feel like trying to store them for any great length of time would decrease the viability or increase the chances of mold with the remaining leaves...

Esp. considering that it took a few weeks for mine to show the first signs of roots.

I was a little uncertain about the best way to root them so I tried about 4 different substrates in various locations (outdoor greenhouse, window sill, and terrarium). I had quite a few leaves to play around with.  so I wanted to try to find out what worked best and not risk them all in one spot

Here are the substrates that I used
100% Perlite
50% Perlite, 50% Vermiculite
100% Pine Bark
33% Pine Bark, 33% Potting Soil, 33% coco coir

They all worked, but it seems like there was a higher instance of rot with the mixture of bark, soil, and coir.  Maybe because it held too much water, or it may just seem that way because I had smaller leaf pieces in those pots. and of the leaves that I cut into 4 pieces, rot was more of a problem.

Whole leaves, whole leaves folded back and forth, or 1/2 leaves seemed to do better than the smaller pieces.

Of the 4 substrates that I tried, I was most impressed with the straight pine bark and the mix of perlite/verm. 100% perlite did pretty good as well but it may have just been the location that made the mix stand out. The only place that I had the mix of perlite/verm was in the terrarium at a constant 86F and near 100% humidity, while the 100% perlite was on a window sill inside a tupperware container.

Obviously there's not much in the way of nutrients in the straight pine bark, perlite, or mix of perlite/verm and I haven't quite figured out my plan to move them to soil yet. Just this morning I picked one with good root grown from the perlite/verm and transferred it to a mix of pine bark, coir, and soil as a test. If it takes the move well, I'll probably migrate the rest that way.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on August 25, 2013, 06:03:48 pm
Give it a try and let us know Saros. Any time that I've tried changing media like that it was always rough going. Not impossible mind you, just difficult.

These days I just leave them in the original rooting container until it is just about rootbound and then up-pot using a similar mix, but adding organics. The trick is to not change it too much and be very careful not to overwater for a few weeks after transplanting.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: gator on August 26, 2013, 10:10:13 pm
I've successfully rooted hundreds of leaves into mature plants. I like the lay the leaves almost flat on the growing medium, as opposed to at a 45 degree angle. The reason I started doing this is... when the roots form on a  leaf that is angled @ 45 degrees, they all grow downward and get twisted/stuck together. Being that a leaf can produce dozens of shoots, it makes it hard to separate the shoots when the roots are grown together. I've found that by laying the leaf flat, the surface of the leaf is allowed more light, and the roots grow straight down, more individual, making it much easier to seperate them when the time comes.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Psihkal on August 27, 2013, 11:45:12 am
great info guys thanks! ;D

Have mine set up in the terrarium as shown above and am opening it twice a day to air it out and make sure the soil is nicely saturated. Its been in since last friday so I will check on the root development in 3 weeks granted i have no issues before then. 

I have the cutting at 45 degrees now with 10% cactus soil to keep everything abit more together, a layer of hydroton balls on the base of the pot and the rest filled with pine bark chips.

With my last cutting i think il set it pretty horizontal as recommended. Il also use straight pine bark for the medium. Ive been trying to think of a way in which i can guarantee there will be no mould growing in my damp terrarium.. Anyone got any good ideas?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: gator on August 27, 2013, 02:32:40 pm
I forgot to mention, a problem you may encounter when setting the leaf horizontally is... the leaf surface will try to raise off the soil somewhat. I try to slightly bury both ends of the leaf, or hold it down w/ something.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on August 27, 2013, 06:12:05 pm
Just be aware of transplant shock whenever you're planning on up-sizing the pots, Psihkal: straight pine bark will work (as it's what I've done) but be aware that when you transplant them (whenever they're ready) that you should mix pine bark into the potting soil you use avoid shock. As others have mentioned earlier in the thread it's best keep the soil similar to what you've started them in so the leaves doesn't go 'WTF' from drastic soil differences.

I like your technique billydgator to get the shoots apart by changing the way the leaf is planted, I've seen the downward/twisting growth you refer to on one of my 45° buried leaves already and wasn't sure if it was typical or not.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: gator on August 27, 2013, 09:07:44 pm

I like your technique billydgator to get the shoots apart by changing the way the leaf is planted, I've seen the downward/twisting growth you refer to on one of my 45° buried leaves already and wasn't sure if it was typical or not.

It's just a preference. Some like to grow the shoots in a group and thin the smaller ones out. I have several that I haven't thinned out and they grew in a group just fine.

I forgot to mention that plant cuttings (as opposed to leaf cuttings) have rooted at least 3x as fast in my experiences (no rooting hormone). I may do an experiment to see if a leaf w/ a small piece of stem attached, or a node, roots as fast as the double node cuttings im referring to.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Saros on September 09, 2013, 05:23:35 pm
Ah, I got a sprout! It's kind of ridiculous how excited it made me when I saw that. lol
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on September 09, 2013, 06:53:13 pm
Well done! It's no surprise to me that the first to sprout is in perlite, just be aware that when you transplant that little sprout out of the perlite  you have to be gentle, those roots are very fragile. You have to 'uncover' the roots instead of only pulling the leaf out, if you don't see that there are still roots buried when you go to remove it you risk pulling the roots off instead of out of the perlite, it's doable but you can't rush yourself.

I know that feeling of seeing the first sprout, it's quite exciting ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Sunshine on September 09, 2013, 08:28:27 pm
Quite exciting indeed! It takes a longggg time to sprout so I know how you feel man.
Congrats!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Shpongle Lover on September 09, 2013, 09:14:21 pm
Congrats!  Is it a boy or a girl?   :)

1+ on the karma for a job well done!!!  I'm 5 weeks into my waiting period...tick tock goes the clock!  How long was it before your leaf gave birth??

S.L.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Saros on September 09, 2013, 09:45:04 pm
Thanks!

I believe these went into the perlite sometime between July 8th and July 15th. Just going by memory since I don't keep my private messages around very long. But that should be very close to accurate.. So It's been about 8 or 9 weeks.

I noticed one more *really* tiny one on another leaf in the perlite as well. I checked on the other 6 leafs in the other substrates after finding these and no sign of sprouts on them yet.   

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on September 09, 2013, 10:09:20 pm
They will sprout in time ;) When I started leaves in sphagnum moss for the trade I had, for weeks I thought there wasn't any sprouts. That is until one day after moving moss around to take two leaves for trades did I discovered a 1.2" sprout which was previously covered in moss, hidden from view. That one was quite the surprise :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Shpongle Lover on September 09, 2013, 11:20:53 pm
NICE, Saros!

Man, this hobby really demands patience!

S.L.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on September 12, 2013, 04:00:33 am
Glad you guys are having success with your babies.  ;D

The do require patience at first but don't worry... after seven or eight years they really take off!    :P

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on September 13, 2013, 09:59:34 pm
Update on my psychotria:

I've come up with a method that just might work for transitioning my P. viridis out of the terrariums and into a lower humidity. A few weeks ago while food shopping I found that some snack foods (mostly just cheese balls or pretzels) come in these large, transparent, barrel shaped plastic containers (a little bit bigger than the jars I have). So naturally I bought one, and once it was empty I cleaned it out and removed the label (had scratch at the label a bunch and leave it under hot water for a while, still a little glue residue but not enough to matter), once that was done I cut several holes into it. I then took my healthiest of the taller plants I have and placed it into this container.

The idea behind it is by having it in this plastic container, every week (maybe longer depending on how the plant looks) I'll cut another hole in it, slightly lowering the relative humidity, and once it can be removed and survive in whatever humidity my apartment is at, I'll just tape up the holes and repeat with the next plant that's ready to be acclimated to a lower humidity.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: gator on September 13, 2013, 11:11:17 pm
Good idea TBM. Them big plastic cheese puff and pretzel jars could be recycled and used for a number of applications. I've learned that in my humid climate, w/ P. Alba the plants don't need much hardening off once taken out of the terrarium. How many stages of humidity reduction are you shooting for? In my opinion (I don't know how dry your climate is) you could just poke some holes in the cheese jug and not worry about having to add/remove holes in the future  ;)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on September 14, 2013, 05:54:44 am
I was hoping the acclimation from the completely humid glass jar to the dryer air of the rest of my apartment will take around 3 weeks, I only put it into the plastic one yesterday so we'll see how quickly it can acclimate.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on October 16, 2013, 01:31:36 pm
Woot! My first sprouts came up last week. Two different leaves right now, and at least a couple more look like soon.  ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Sunshine on October 16, 2013, 07:47:19 pm
Looking good frog pajamas! It looks like a good portion of the leaf it above the soil line. You should try your best to keep humidity around it high to prevent it from drying out. :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on October 16, 2013, 08:33:58 pm
Yep, I pulled it out of it's ziplock home to take the pic, but otherwise they are all in gallon bags or a fish tank with plastic wrap cover to keep humidity close to 100%.

I do have one plant that was rooted when I got it that is about to be too tall to fit in either, and I noticed some rot on a leaf touching the top. Should I reduce the humidity over a few weeks to acclimate it to regular indoor humidity, or do I need to find something larger to keep it in higher humidity indefinitely?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Sunshine on October 16, 2013, 08:41:49 pm
I would  try to remove most of the rot but keep a tiny bit along the edges so they don't dry out and rot even more than they already are. I would keep it in something larger until it becomes established.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Shpongle Lover on October 16, 2013, 08:45:28 pm
This is one of five plants I've gotten to this stage from seven leaves started on 8/3/13/

SL
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on October 16, 2013, 08:47:39 pm
So far I have one P. viridis plant with I've acclimated to regular indoor humidity (it's roughly 5"  tall), i spent the better part of a month acclimating it. It appears to be doing alright so far, but only time will tell how it will do in the long run. I'm also currently acclimating a second P. viridis, it's about halfway finished with that I think, this one is roughly 3.5" tall so I'm hoping that by acclimating it at a younger size it will do better once it's bigger.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Shpongle Lover on October 16, 2013, 08:50:21 pm
When I get to that point I'm planning on using the half-soda bottle technique - placing the cut top half of a clear soda or water bottle into the soil and unscrewing the cap and gradually adding additional holes with a hole punch of 1 - 2 per week.

SL
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on October 16, 2013, 10:53:39 pm
Good idea. I even have a few 2 liter bottles that have been mini-greenhouses in the past. I'll switch to that and start poking holes to acclimate. The rot was very minimal, and I think it's off and bounced back.

It's very exciting seeing the unrooted ones start to shoot, and significant growth from the rooted leaf.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on October 16, 2013, 11:26:13 pm
I've seen GA3 come up quite a bit with other plants.

Does anyone ever use it with P. viridis? Is there no need? Will it cause damage? Has experimentation been done?

Thank you,
Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on October 19, 2013, 03:20:47 am
GA3 is usually used to trigger germination of seeds, which is usually the topic of discussion in these parts, but it can also be used to stimulate root and shoot growth.

It's never been used on Pv as far as I know, and certainly never by me.  Give it a go and let us know your results! To make it really interesting you could try different concentrations to see which works best. Untreated leaves should be used as a control.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on October 25, 2013, 02:50:42 am
GA3 is usually used to trigger germination of seeds, which is usually the topic of discussion in these parts, but it can also be used to stimulate root and shoot growth.

It's never been used on Pv as far as I know, and certainly never by me.  Give it a go and let us know your results! To make it really interesting you could try different concentrations to see which works best. Untreated leaves should be used as a control.

2 controls leaves, many control seeds.

2 leaves, 4 seeds each in GA3:
1000ppm
750ppm
500ppm
250ppm

Results to come, Don't hold your breath though.    ;)

Hcc

Edit: see NW's post directly below. I'm allowing them to soak in solution. I haven't decided for how long. So far 3 hours. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: New Wisdom on October 25, 2013, 03:58:02 am
GA3 is usually used to trigger germination of seeds, which is usually the topic of discussion in these parts, but it can also be used to stimulate root and shoot growth.

It's never been used on Pv as far as I know, and certainly never by me.  Give it a go and let us know your results! To make it really interesting you could try different concentrations to see which works best. Untreated leaves should be used as a control.

2 controls leaves, many control seeds.

2 leaves, 4 seeds each in GA3:
1000ppm
750ppm
500ppm
250ppm

Results to come, Don't hold your breath though.    ;)

Hcc

What did you do? Did you soak the leaves in straight solution or did you just spray it on there?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Sunshine on October 25, 2013, 05:16:08 am
I wouldn't soak the leafs for longer than 6 hours in the 750 and 1000. They might get chemical burns. The reason seeds don't get chem burned from those high concentrations is because of the shell on them. The 500ppm might even be too much.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on October 25, 2013, 06:07:39 am
I took them out at 3 hr and 50 min and potted them in
1 : 0.75 : 1     
cactus soil (super soil brand, palm and cacti mix) : vermiculite : perlite


For each concentration, I did two leaves. One with the main stem snapped in 4 spots, the other unsnapped.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on October 25, 2013, 08:22:20 am
Fantastic set up, were all of these leaves from the same mother plant?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Shpongle Lover on October 27, 2013, 12:52:05 am
Looking forward to some results after the New Year, I would imagine... Good luck!

SL
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on October 27, 2013, 01:33:15 am
Fantastic set up, were all of these leaves from the same mother plant?

There are 4 different mother plants that were all from the same seed batch. All variations of the same genetics.

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on October 31, 2013, 02:59:50 pm
Nice work there Hcc! Looking forward to your results. To my knowledge you are on the cutting edge with this long overdue research.

 ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: semaphore on November 01, 2013, 04:55:50 am
I'm getting a few viridis leaves today. Kada suggested i dont use ziplock bags as it will restrict airflow but i see here you Bach and even TBM use methods that restrict it. Should i perhaps cut a few holes to allow fresh air in or just open it once or twice  a day to flush it with fesh air. I have a few alba leaves currently in potting soil + perlite mix with no breather holes and they seem fine i just ensure that i open it once or twice.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on November 01, 2013, 05:19:16 am
There are times when I don't open some of the glass terrariums for days and my psychotria don't seem to mind.

In fact sometimes when it gets hotter in the terrariums than in the rest of my apartment (during the day) the excess air pressure will then hiss or bubble out from the lid's seal depending on how tightly I last closed it, and then at night after they cool down you'll hear it sucking air back in (kind of like that really annoying noise you make when you slowly leak air out of a balloon's opening)... sometimes I loosen the lids a bit to quickly equalize the air pressure because it can get annoying when there's more than one making noise :P

The point of that is in a way my terrariums are getting at least some daily fresh air exchange simply from the pressure differences of the terrarium and atmospheric between night and day. As long as your set up has a hole or two or you open it at least once a week you should be fine.

The first few times my glass terrariums were making noise like that it freaked me out because every time I would go looking for what was making noise they'd stop so I thought it was some wierd bug or something that kept hiding :D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Sunshine on November 01, 2013, 06:53:53 am
I prefer the 'open twice a day' method. You have more control that way.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on November 01, 2013, 02:57:58 pm
Opening once a day or even every couple days works well for me, but there have been times when I forgot about a particular pot and it went weeks without being opened. They've always been fine... ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: semaphore on November 01, 2013, 03:30:07 pm
Nice thanks guys only getting them next week goddam EMS.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Sunshine on November 01, 2013, 06:16:08 pm
I've had plants get moldy if I didn't open it for that long. I recommend you do it at least every other day to prevent this.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: semaphore on November 01, 2013, 08:18:17 pm
I've had plants get moldy if I didn't open it for that long. I recommend you do it at least every other day to prevent this.

Yep thats what i do at the moment with my iboga, alba so will do it with this.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: utahraptor on November 06, 2013, 02:15:38 am
incredible wealth of information here! bookmarked for when i start growing my own
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on November 11, 2013, 07:43:54 pm
Just wanted to share some updates on these. The largest one is from a rooted leaf, and the smaller ones are from unrooted leaves. I also threw on the first A. Acuminata that's sprouted above the soil (others have germinated but are a few days behind) and baby Mullein sprouts.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on November 12, 2013, 10:33:07 pm
Experiment 1:
Three fresh leaves, stems snapped in 4-6 places
Two potted in 1:0.75:1 of cacti soil : vermiculite : perlite for 3 weeks. Then in cup of water for one week
One leaf put into cup of water for 4 weeks

Results:
The two potted leaves (pictures 1 &3) showed much more root development than the one left in water (picture 5). The one left in water showed small root development at a couple nodes. The potted leaves had lager root development at most all of the nodes.

Discussion:
Planting leaves in 1:0.75:1 of cacti soil : vermiculite : perlite for 3 weeks then putting water for one week appears to provide more root growth at a greater number of nodes than simply placing a leaf in water for 4 weeks.

Also, I noticed that roots will develop off the leaf itself, not just the stem. The leaf in picture 3 had a slight tear near the stem and roots formed out of the tear. (Look near the stem where it originally connected to the plant.)

The two potted leaves are used in the next experiment.

Experiment 2:
Here's the start of another P. viridis leaf propagation experiment I'm working on:

Basic Idea:
1) snap the main stem in 4-6 spots
2) plant in 1:0.75:1 of cacti soil : vermiculite : perlite for 3 weeks
3) Put in cup of water for 1 week
4) Cut leaf into sections based on rooted nodes
5) Re-plant in 1:0.75:1

I have one control leaf (steps 1,2,3,5) and one experiment leaf (steps 1-5). The experiment leaf was cut into 4 sections and the control leaf was planted whole. Both were rooted at the time of re-planting. The experimental leaf appeared to have more root development than the control leaf.

Results and discussion under "Expirement 2" Results in This Post (http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg9671#msg9671).

Pictures
1) experiment 2 leaf, before cut into sections
2) experiment 2 leaf cut into four sections
3) control leaf
4) potted control and experiment sections
5) third leaf, only put in water (experiment 1)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on November 12, 2013, 10:41:00 pm
I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what happens with that experiment ;D I like how you cut the experiment leaf into Vs (as opposed to straight cuts) and by doing so keeping the veins intact, I never would have thought to do that 8)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: olyd88 on November 14, 2013, 02:32:13 pm
I did a test with alba and viridis leaves without humidity, in one pot with direct sunlight, at lowest 27 to 33 celcius temperature. Left it outside for 2 weeks and the result is, the viridis leaves almost dried and rotted completely(20% still green but under the soil), the alba's still in 99% condition, and rooting without problem. Just for information.:)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: semaphore on November 14, 2013, 02:53:49 pm
happyconcafe i see you just leave them open? What is your humidity level where you live? Do you not place them in ziplock bags?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on November 14, 2013, 08:48:16 pm
happyconcafe i see you just leave them open? What is your humidity level where you live? Do you not place them in ziplock bags?

I took the photos outside of the propagation chamber. The humidity inside the chamers is near 100%.

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Saros on November 14, 2013, 10:10:33 pm
It's been a while since I posted on this thread. I just wanted to add a quick update on my sprouts

All my baby viridis are doing quite well. All of the leaves produced at least a couple sprouts most 4-6.. One in particular produced about 12. So I have a small army of them baby viridis now:)

From my experience with this grow so far, here's what I found:
- I got the most sprouts from a single leaf when the leaf remained whole and just snapped it along the stem "accordion" style. Then buried the leave horizontally in the soil so the entire length of the stem was just below the soil level
- I got roots fastest when the medium was just 100% moist Perlite
- Second best seemed to be a 50/50 mix of Perlite and Vermiculite
- Anything with organic matter in the growing medium  was slower to produce sprouts initially. Maybe due to competing fungi and bacteria or something.

I've transplanted most of them into soil now and I didn't lose any to shock. I dug a small hole in the new soil and filled it with some of the original medium and planted them in that. Allowing the roots to grow out into the surrounding soil on their own. I figured that would be the most gentle transition for them.

It seemed to me that the ones in 100% perlite grew up to about 1cm and then halted. I thought maybe they just needed nutrients at that point so that's when I decided to transplant them to soil. However, it could be simply be that the temperatures in my house were dropping as winter approached. So I moved them into my heated propagation chamber which  stays a cozy 80F night & day.

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: semaphore on November 15, 2013, 07:55:36 am
Saros nice update. Regarding the organic matter i have found most of my leaves have showed signs of rooting after just about two weeks. Mine are just in regular potting soil with some perlite and seem to be happy.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Roze on November 15, 2013, 10:58:03 am
Nice! looking forward to start with my p. viridis. One question the seeds should germinate indoor or outside is an option?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: olyd88 on November 15, 2013, 11:19:59 am
Nice! looking forward to start with my p. viridis. One question the seeds should germinate indoor or outside is an option?
Hey Roze, welcome to the forum :), well, this things has already discussed many times here, and here is the link to the useful thread for you to read,
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=371.0

It's depends on your seeds viability, if you got it in fresh berries, those seeds would germinate in both place, indoor or outdoor, but if you got it not fresh, you'll end up several months waiting with no result.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: semaphore on November 15, 2013, 11:35:23 am
Nice! looking forward to start with my p. viridis. One question the seeds should germinate indoor or outside is an option?
Hey Roze, welcome to the forum :), well, this things has already discussed many times here, and here is the link to the useful thread for you to read,
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=371.0

It's depends on your seeds viability, if you got it in fresh berries, those seeds would germinate in both place, indoor or outdoor, but if you got it not fresh, you'll end up several months waiting with no result.

That isnt entirely accurate old needs do germinate. And according to a guy i know he says viridis produce seeds not berries, alba produce berries. I may be mistaken thou.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: olyd88 on November 15, 2013, 11:47:53 am
Really? from what i know, it does actually produce berries, and each berries should contain 1-3 seeds.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: semaphore on November 15, 2013, 12:18:10 pm
Really? from what i know, it does actually produce berries, and each berries should contain 1-3 seeds.

Maybe you right.. Would someone with a plant thats flowered tell us?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: onion on November 15, 2013, 12:34:19 pm
They do produce red berries.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: onion on November 15, 2013, 03:48:52 pm
Here's a photo I just took of the berries and seeds from the berries...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0PN0ZBfWRqw/UoYz68kK96I/AAAAAAAALmE/bY09U57KPwo/w958-h719-no/P.+viridis+berries+and+seeds.jpg)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: semaphore on November 16, 2013, 02:09:49 pm
And the question i have now. Have you eaten one?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Mandrake on November 19, 2013, 01:06:08 pm
Psychotria viridis does produce berries, with seeds inside.

And the question i have now. Have you eaten one?

How is this relevant?

Mandrake
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: semaphore on November 19, 2013, 01:08:30 pm
Psychotria viridis does produce berries, with seeds inside.

And the question i have now. Have you eaten one?

How is this relevant?

Mandrake

Then just delete the post if it offends you so much.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Mandrake on November 19, 2013, 01:11:23 pm
Psychotria viridis does produce berries, with seeds inside.

And the question i have now. Have you eaten one?

How is this relevant?

Mandrake

Then just delete the post if it offends you so much.

I just made a simple question, I expected you to simply answer it. I don't see how whether onion ate one seed or not is relevant for the propagation thread. But thank you for your reply.

Mandrake
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: gator on November 20, 2013, 02:05:17 am
Some of the berries on my plants have started to ripen. When I study the pic onion posted w/ the red berries and seed, it appears fresh. How do I go about harvesting viable seed from the ripe berries? Is it as simple as mashing the berry, removing the seeds and letting them dry, or should I be letting the ripened berries dry before removing the seeds from them?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Sunshine on November 20, 2013, 09:22:49 am
I imagine it would be easier to do when they are wet after a water soak like how they do with coffee beans. If its dry it would be harder to cut into without damaging the seed inside.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on November 20, 2013, 03:46:12 pm
They're soft, squishy berries. The seeds are very easy to remove. The berries do stain your fingers and clothes but will wash off with a good amount of soap and hot water.

Would it be possible to move reply #90- #103 to the P. Viridis seed germination thread?
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=371.0


Thank you ,
Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on November 20, 2013, 03:58:28 pm
On another note, a member send me a few leaves still attached to about 1.5 inches (3.8cm) of stem. I put this cutting in a cup of water inside a propagation chamber at ~83°F (28°C) and near 100% humidity. The chamber was opened at least twice a day for air exchange.

The cutting showed root formation far before any of the leaves. It developed a good mass of roots within a month and now its planted in 1:0.75:1  of cacti potting soil : vermiculite : perlite. Its already putting out new leaves.

If you can get a cutting with some stem still attached, it seems to be even easier to propagate than leaves.

Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on November 20, 2013, 08:19:36 pm
Awesome^ did you use any rooting hormone?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on November 20, 2013, 11:25:51 pm
I'm not 100% sure if I did or not. I have vague recollection, now that you ask, of using a tiny tiny amount of "super-thrive". I believe it has rooting hormones.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on December 04, 2013, 04:26:51 pm
Has anyone played around with CO2 (carbon dioxide) and P. Viridis leaf propagation?

If I recall correctly, I read an academic article about propagating P. Viridis stems where they wrapped the stem in Sphagnum moss and a baggie. They breathed into the baggie so there would be carbon dioxide.

Also, oyster mushroom mycelium releases large amounts of CO2:

Quote
One study showed (Zadrazil, 1976) showed that nearly 50% of the carbon base in wheat straw is liberated as gaseous carbon dioxide in the course of its decomposition by Oyster mushrooms!
Paul Stamets, Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms, pp64

So I have a big chunk of oyster mushroom mycelium in a bag and am considering putting some of it in my P. Viridis propagation chamber.

Thoughts?


Thank you,
Hcc

Here's a method that describes blowing into a propagation baggie for CO2:
http://australianethnobotany.blogspot.com/2011/03/psychotria-propagation-leaf-cuttings.html
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on December 04, 2013, 07:00:14 pm
Just keep them apart from another so the oyster mushroom mycelium doesn't get a chance to feed on your cuttings? In theory you should have gas exchange between the mycelia and the Psychotria, but whether or not that system will be balanced is an unknown. Sounds like you're in the works to creating a small ecosystem, I'd love to see how that progresses!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: PermieGing on December 04, 2013, 07:37:53 pm
 plant photosynthesis (may be respiration) produces CO2 (thats something ive found out recently, i always thought plants only produce O2)

Either way, your idea sounds much cooler 8)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on December 04, 2013, 11:35:27 pm
Just keep them apart from another so the oyster mushroom mycelium doesn't get a chance to feed on your cuttings?

Oyster mushrooms are saprophytic, meaning they only feed on dead or decaying matter. They are not parasitic like the infamous Honey mushroom.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Sunshine on December 05, 2013, 12:09:07 am
plant photosynthesis (may be respiration) produces CO2 (thats something ive found out recently, i always thought plants only produce O2)

Either way, your idea sounds much cooler 8)

Not trying to call you out or anything, but do you have a source to this information? Like a scientific article or something?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: PermieGing on December 05, 2013, 01:49:50 am
Um ill look but i just learned this the other day in plant sciences class

Although it may not appear like i learned it lol

Its a byproduct of photosynthesis


Im currently at a church show thing with my parents (uggh), so ill link something up in a bit

Edit: maybe it respiration, lol

I know its in my textbook, but thats at my house :P
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: PermieGing on December 05, 2013, 02:54:36 am
"In respiration, plants (and animals) convert the sugars (photosynthates) back into energy for growth and other life processes (metabolic processes).  The chemical equation for respiration shows that the photosynthates are combined with oxygen releasing energy, carbon dioxide, and water.  A simple chemical equation for respiration is given below. Notice that the equation for respiration is the opposite of that for photosynthesis."

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/141.html (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/141.html)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on December 13, 2013, 08:29:14 pm
Ok, quick question. A couple of my p. viridises (viridi??) have sprouts from the leaf well above the soil line. Is that ok, or is it going to be a problem when they acclimate to normal humidity? Can I repot or something if it's an issue?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Sunshine on December 13, 2013, 11:55:02 pm
Wow that thing looks healthy! I'd just leave it as is, personally. If it's growing great why change anything? ;)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: New Wisdom on December 14, 2013, 01:01:18 am
Wow! That looks great!  Personally I would separate those plantlets, but I guess it all depends on prefference.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on December 14, 2013, 02:38:48 pm
Thanks! When I got those leaves there were several stacked together and the main stems made impressions in the other leaves from pressure in the mail. Once they got going, they went crazy sprouting from those impressions. I guess it worked out similar to making small breaks at different points in the leaves?

I think I'll leave them alone for now, mostly because I'm nervous to damage them. If I have to change it up later, I'll need some advice from you guys.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on December 14, 2013, 05:41:30 pm
Each of those sprouts above the soil line should have their own roots trying to reach the ground, I've had that happen a few times already, you can transplant the ones above soil and they shouldn't experience too much transplant shock. Simply wait for them to grow another set or two of leaves to get more strength and use the same soil mix the mother leaf is in and you should be fine ;) The fewer leaves you allow them to grow before separating from the mother leaf, the slower it will grow from there (since it'll have less surface area for photosynthesis)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on December 15, 2013, 03:21:19 am
Excellent advice TBM, couldn't have said it better myself.

 8)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on December 18, 2013, 02:46:27 pm
Hi All,

I'm looking for some advice here. I put a bunch of leaves in one tub (see this post for a pic: http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg4992#msg4992) and now the leaves have massive amounts of roots.

I'm worried that as baby plants start popping up that the whole thing is going to become a huge mess of baby plants that are difficult to separate. Is this a valid concern?

Should I repot the leaves into individual containers? or just leave them alone for a couple more months?


Thank ya kindly,
hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on December 24, 2013, 03:44:20 am
I'd just leave them be for a while. If the roots do get tangled they can be trimmed when you separate the plants. Roots will regenerate very quickly, unlike the green aerial portion.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on February 21, 2014, 08:46:54 pm
I separated a bunch of plantlets from the mother leaves a month or so ago, and in the process completely mauled the mother leaves. I decided to throw them in some more soil anyways, and now there's a few new plantlets! If you decide to separate before the leaf dies, it's probably worth a shot even if you mangle the leaf substantially. There are even a few little bits of leaf that have new shoots.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on February 23, 2014, 03:10:34 am
The problem with separating the babies from the leaf is that as long as the leaf is green it is photosynthesizing and thus feeding the baby. It's like it has its own relatively huge solar panel.

My experience has been that the baby's growth slows way down, akin to starting from seed, if I separate them.  But as you have discovered, almost any leaf fragment will throw more babies.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on February 23, 2014, 06:30:51 pm
The problem with separating the babies from the leaf is that as long as the leaf is green is is photosynthesizing and thus feeding the baby. It's like it has its own relatively huge solar panel.

Seconded. I had a few leaves that had plantlets growing up on the leaf way above the soil and only separated once they got so heavy that they were causing the mother leaf to fall over sideways and pull on the roots. The plantlets that had pretty developed roots and several sets of good sized leaves are kicking along pretty well, but any really small ones have slowed a ton. I planned on leaving the small ones alone, but I made a mess of the separation  :P.

How old do mother plants need to be to use the leaves to propagate new plants, ballpark? Is it more a matter of age specifically, or leaf size as an indicator?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on February 23, 2014, 06:59:13 pm
I've had plantlets come from P. viridis leaves that were close to 7" long (mature leaves), and I also had 2 P. alba leaves which weren't even 4" long that had begun to sprout (so likely not fully mature leaves). I do not know how large (or old) the plants were when the leaves were harvested, although it seems to me that size of the leaf isn't much of a factor; I'd be more worried about how the mother plant will react once you start pulling leaves off, especially if you don't wait long enough where it might not recover from losing too many perfectly good leaves.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on February 27, 2014, 05:42:00 pm
Age of the mother plant really doesn't matter. As long as the leaves are reasonably well-developed they will root, given the proper conditions. I've started leaf clones from mothers that were only a year or two old from seed.

Also, while I don't recommend it, mine survived being completely defoliated when they were about a foot tall. I did that in preparation for a move across the country so I wouldn't have to water them in the back of the moving van. They survived just fine, and even though they are true tropicals they've proven to be amazingly resilient for me.

Good luck to all who are growing this plant!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: fairdinkumseeds on February 28, 2014, 01:45:19 am
Yeah I'd have to second Bach on that.
My poor plants have been raped ever since I got them.
As soon as a new leaf forms I pull it off to propagate or post and they are still hanging in there.
They have a stem a central growing tip and 2 leaves max at any time.
Feel a bit harsh but its for the good of the whole species...... :P
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: gator on March 01, 2014, 12:19:37 am
I have a lot of healthy Alba plants, so I prefer stem cuttings over leaf cuttings. A stem cutting only takes 3 weeks to take off. With leaf propagation, I believe that the more the bottom of the leaf is in contact w/ the soil, the better! That's why I plant mine more horizontally than vertically. The roots grow vertically, so by doing that, I ensure the multiple sprouts' roots don't become entangled. I encourage multiple sprouts by notching the center vein of the leaf(everyone knows this, but...). I've noticed by making a small hole in the leaf at the notch, it allows the shoots to grow up and thru the leaf as opposed to breaking thru it or going around it. With Alba I have used full leaves that were only 1" long, also cut a 6" leaf into 4 sections and everything sprouted. I would not use sections or small leaves for rooting Viridis. The larger the leaf and better condition it's in, the better the chances are for surviving and staying green until root growth. I think Alba roots better than Viridis because of the growth rate. A leaf from an Alba plant may only have to survive half as long as a leaf from a Viridis before producing.  I've only had 2 Viridis leaves (w/ roots) and they died. I can't kill an Alba leaf without frying it. I have green sprouting Alba leaves that've been outside in the dirt for over a year! They've been thru freezes and under water for days. I think when a leaf gets rooted, it'll stay green and survive for a very long time. If your careful when removing shoots from the leaf, and don't hack it up too much, I think one could get 100 plants from a single leaf. One can get a LOT of plants going quick w/ leaf propagation. Enough to share w/ everyone and still keep your own collection growing.
One day I hope to take all of my notes and make a Psychotria propagation guide.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on March 01, 2014, 02:24:56 am
The problem with alba is that all the clones that I'm aware of are phytochemically uninteresting. Even the UDV sourced ones, which is where I got mine so I know.

Also in certain areas alba can spread aggressively and I think likely to become an invasive exotic. I constantly have to pull out volunteers that sprout all over my back yard, or better yet clip all the flowers before they set seed. Wish I had that problem with viridis...
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: EIRN on April 11, 2014, 06:35:16 pm
Best tecnique to produce chacruna seedling starting of a leaf to me is put the leaf in water, in a glasswater. Cover ¾ of the leaf with water, change the water every week.
A tip is to put a cutting of plant that roots easily in the same glasswater to provide rooting hormone.
I made a visual guide to help. Text was write in Portuguese, but is possible to understand only looking the pics.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: nahuatochtl on May 03, 2014, 11:05:15 pm
Hey brothers!

So i re read all the info in the forum and i think that theres still some info missing, and this is how to proceed once the plantlets are well stablished.

I had success with my alba leafs and now have alba mini plants, i guess the procedure will be the same as viridis so im asking on this thread instead of opening a new one. So what to do now?

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on May 04, 2014, 05:43:20 am
Simply transplant into a larger pot of the same soil mix you started with (to prevent transplant shock) and continue to treat them the same as you have been, your P. alba plantlets are looking nice :) Whatever method you used for your P. alba leaves to get this far will work equally as well for your P. viridis leaves, but remember that viridis grows slower than alba.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: nahuatochtl on May 04, 2014, 05:23:44 pm
Fine TBM, so far i had those ones inside a fish tank with a cfl on top, with high humidity inside, but they no longer fit in there, so in the mean time im going to put them in another kind of humidity dome (the botle they are already in) and transplant. when will this be a good time for they to try outdoor aclimatization? when will be  a good idea to put them under normal humidity and how to do it?

THanks for the help, i hope soon i find some viridis leaves in my future :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on May 04, 2014, 07:32:08 pm
They look large enough to acclimatize to lower humidity.  If you are using a bottle as a humidity dome, poke a couple holes in it every few days to slowly bring the humidity down. I think you'll want to get them stable with humidity and then acclimate outdoors, but someone else can chime in if you can do it at the same time. 

They look really nice!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Mandrake on May 08, 2014, 06:16:45 pm
No news for veteran growers, but I wanted to add this new Psychotria Cartaginensis Carthagenensis (thank you, EIRN) family to the thread. I really feel tempted to leave it as is...

Mandrake
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: EIRN on May 08, 2014, 06:59:48 pm
Nice P. carthagenensis, Mandrake. This is a fast growing Psychotria (in comparison with other species), and it flowers very fast too.
I planted one cutting just to learn how to propagate (before I get my first viridis). the little plant blossomed with less than 15 cm in high. I find the photo and post here, soon.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on May 08, 2014, 08:34:48 pm
Nice  8) Based on how large the pot looks that you've got it growing in, it looks like you could let it get at least 3-4 times taller before thinking about transplanting, although it's hard to see in the picture how deep that pot is.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on May 23, 2014, 04:14:04 pm
I took them out at 3 hr and 50 min and potted them in
1 : 0.75 : 1     
cactus soil (super soil brand, palm and cacti mix) : vermiculite : perlite
For each concentration, I did two leaves. One with the main stem snapped in 4 spots, the other unsnapped.

Wow, this has been a loooooooong journey getting leaves to propagate. Before you read this whole thing, essentially nothing new was found :D


GA3 Experiment Results and Discussion

The leaves were kept in a propagation chamber at nearly 100% humidity and about 85F (29C).

Please see This Post for picture (http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg4992#msg4992)

This turned out to be a terrible way to pot P. viridis leaves. They were too close together in my opinion. Once they started rooting, three problems arose: 1) the roots tangled with each other making the whole tray virtually impossible to separate 2) there was very little room for baby plants to come up 3) upon digging up the leaves, I found that my watering method (top watering with frequent misting) had been completely ineffective as the soil beneath the leaves was practically bone dry. Bottom watering should have been used. They didn't seem to be affected at all by GA3 soaking.

Overall, the results from this whole tray were dismal. A mere 2 baby plants from all those leaves :( I repotted those two babies quickly because the whole tray was being overrun with algae (lack of air flow I'm guessing). Unfortunately, upon digging up the leaves, many had rotted below the soil and never produced baby plants.

"Expirement 2" Results
This was basically to see if cutting a leaf into sections would be better than leaving it whole after roots had developed.

The leaf that I left whole did the best Experiment 2 "Control Leaf" (picture #3) (http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg5986#msg5986). Once the roots at each joint were about 1" (2.5cm) long, I potted it in a 6" (15cm) diameter pot using Bach's soil mix (1:0.75:1 potting soil, vermiculite, perlite). This allowed the leaf to lay pretty flat. The majority of the leaf was covered with about 0.5" (~1.3cm) of Bach's soil mix.

This single leaf produced 12 baby plants in one cluster from the very end of the leaf. None of the other nodes sprouted baby plants, I'm guessing because they couldn't reach the soil surface through the leaf. (If I had a do-over, I would try the infamous horizontal potting method).

About 3 days ago, I separated all of the baby plants into their own pots and they're doing very well (picture 1). The other nodes had very healthy roots that were big and thick. Instead of potting it again, I sent it to a member here on STS (they have a near perfect climate for outdoor P. viridis) so they could hopefully use the same leaf to produce more baby plants.

One of the leaf sections, with the stem tip, produced 2 baby plants (picture 2). These are the biggest, thickest P. viridis plants that have come up. It seems that cutting the leaf into sections will drastically reduce the number of baby plants. With this reduction in number, there appears to be an increase in plant size and growth rate.

The other sections of the cut up leaf all had healthy roots and would likely produce baby plants. I sent these to yet another STS member so they can try their hand an P. viridis propagation.

Greenhouse Results and Discussion
Furthermore, I tried a different tray in a greenhouse. These didn't do very well. I'm guessing that the humidity fluctuations (near 90% when warm, down to almost 20% when cool) and temperature fluctuations (90F, 32C when warm and down to 50F, 10C when cool) in the greenhouse were too drastic for P. viridis. The greenhouse is located in a desert environment.

As baby plants would pop up, they would dry out and die back. I covered the tray with a humidity dome and this still didn't seem to help. Unfortunately I am not the caretaker of the greenhouse so there might be many, many other factors at play here.

What Worked Well for HCC?
In summary, when starting P. viridis leaves, it seems easiest to start them by:
1) snap the main stem in 4-6 spots
2) plant in 1:0.75:1 of cacti soil : vermiculite : perlite for 3 weeks
3) Put in cup of water for 1 week
4) Cut leaf into sections based on rooted nodes
5) Re-plant in 1:0.75:1 (continued in next paragraph)

Using the "vertical" method of potting the leaves, it appears to be better to pot them in individual pots that are large enough for the leaf to lay relatively flat with about 25% of the leaf tip sticking out of the soil. I would definitely try the "horizontal" method in the future.

Greenhouses with large fluctuations in humidity and temperature seem to be unsuited for P. viridis propagation. Consistent 100% humidity and 85F (29C) seem to work very well for leaf propagation.

Furthermore, once the plants were about 4" (10cm) tall and larger leaves have started forming, the humidity can be dropped far below 100%. If kept at 100% humidity, the leaves appear to grow in a curled, gnarled fashion. At lower humidity levels, they seem to grow flat and consistently.

Hcc's Recommendations
1) snap leaves in 4-6 locations, don't cut them into sections
2) use Bach's soil mix
3) pot leaves "horizontally"
4) keep humidity near 100% and temps around 85F (29C)
5) patience
6) more patience
7) even more patience
8.) Read Bach's and Gator's recommendations, they know what's up with P. viridis :D


Happy Growing,
Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on May 23, 2014, 04:47:59 pm
Excellent write up of your experiment results!

Furthermore, once the plants were about 4" (10cm) tall and larger leaves have started forming, the humidity can be dropped far below 100%. If kept at 100% humidity, the leaves appear to grow in a curled, gnarled fashion. At lower humidity levels, they seem to grow flat and consistently.

I recall seeing those curled gnarling leaves when I last had P. viridis propagating, and I wasn't ever sure why it did that even though I had the humidity... How far below 100% humidity have you been able to bring your plants down to now?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on May 23, 2014, 05:02:26 pm
How far below 100% humidity have you been able to bring your plants down to now?

:) Thank you for the kind words.

About 30 to 40% for some the bigger ones. They're completely out of propagation chambers and are subject to the ambient humidity.

The smaller ones are still in the propagation chamber at 90 to 100%

Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: SoulGrower on May 23, 2014, 06:32:59 pm
Hey guys!  I have a couple of questions..

HCC you described the following:

What Worked Well for HCC?
In summary, when starting P. viridis leaves, it seems easiest to start them by:
1) snap the main stem in 4-6 spots
2) plant in 1:0.75:1 of cacti soil : vermiculite : perlite for 3 weeks
3) Put in cup of water for 1 week
4) Cut leaf into sections based on rooted nodes
5) Re-plant in 1:0.75:1 (continued in next paragraph)

Just to clarify, after step 2, you are digging the leaf up and then putting it in water?  How much of the leaf should be in water?  Is this method to speed up root formation and then you re-bury the cut leafs to wait for sprouts?

I also have a question about setting the leaf horizontally.  Does the leaf lay on top of the medium with the roots buried, or do you cover the leaf with medium.  If so, how much of the leaf should be left exposed for photosynthesis?

Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else.. just trying to get a better understanding
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on May 23, 2014, 08:53:27 pm
Just to clarify, after step 2, you are digging the leaf up and then putting it in water?  How much of the leaf should be in water?  Is this method to speed up root formation and then you re-bury the cut leafs to wait for sprouts?

I should have explained this more clearly. I uprooted the leaf for two reasons: 1) to take photos 2) to compare the root formation versus the leaf I left in water. The leaf planted in the soil mix had better root formation.

So, overall, I'd suggest putting fresh leaves in the Bach soil mix to develop roots.


I also have a question about setting the leaf horizontally.  Does the leaf lay on top of the medium with the roots buried, or do you cover the leaf with medium.  If so, how much of the leaf should be left exposed for photosynthesis?

Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else.. just trying to get a better understanding

Always feel free to ask questions for clarification. :) If you don't understand, then its likely that others don't as well.

Horizontal by Saros:
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg2965#msg2965

Vertical by Frog Pajamas:
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg5910#msg5910

Hcc's "Vertical", Picture 4, "Control" label:
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg5986#msg5986

Also, in the picture below it shows the horizontal, pure vertical, then the method I used on the very successful leaf mentioned a few posts above. The soil covered the majority of the leaf. I would recommend trying the horizontal approach.


Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on May 23, 2014, 10:53:59 pm
Those plants look great, HCC! Nice work, and thanks for the good info.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: SoulGrower on May 24, 2014, 01:04:47 am
Ahhh!!!  Thank you so much for the clarification HCC!  That diagram really cleared it up for me!  Perfect.  Then I'll def give the horizontal a go  8)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: SoulGrower on July 10, 2014, 11:28:02 pm
The problem with separating the babies from the leaf is that as long as the leaf is green it is photosynthesizing and thus feeding the baby. It's like it has its own relatively huge solar panel.

My experience has been that the baby's growth slows way down, akin to starting from seed, if I separate them.  But as you have discovered, almost any leaf fragment will throw more babies.

How long are we talking here?  As a general rule of thumb, at what point would most recommend seperating babies?  I got my first sprouts about a month ago, yay!, and they're a couple inches tall now with largest set of leaves about an inch in length.

Also, I downloaded EIRNs visual guide and noticed his plants are getting direct sun (at least in the photo).  My understanding is that they should be kept in the shade.  Is it better for them to get some full sun? and if so, how many hours a day is safe?

Sorry if this has already been covered and I just forgot... or missed it, skimmed through again but didn't see anything about this specifically
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on July 11, 2014, 02:45:08 am
Unless you have some pressing reason to separate them, just leave the babies attached to the mother leaf as long as its alive. It will continue to boost the seedlings as long as its still photosynthesizing.

PV are understory plants that do better with shade. Mine are under a large tree so that they get a few hours of morning sun then shade from mid-morning on.  I bounced them through varying light conditions before finding this one they like.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on July 15, 2014, 11:53:22 pm
I got my first sprouts about a month ago, yay!, and they're a couple inches tall now with largest set of leaves about an inch in length.

YES!!!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D ;)

I separated the babies from each other and the mother leaf when they were about 3" (7cm) to 4" (10cm) tall. They had about 3 or 4 sets of leaves. I'm not sure if this is recommended, but they sure have done well.

From what I've ready, leaving the babies attached for as long as possible is best.

Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: EIRN on August 25, 2014, 04:04:58 pm
Also, I downloaded EIRNs visual guide and noticed his plants are getting direct sun (at least in the photo).  My understanding is that they should be kept in the shade.  Is it better for them to get some full sun? and if so, how many hours a day is safe?

Pic get uncorrect impression of full sunlight...it is under 50% shader (sunlight filter cover)....young adult plant can recive morning/afternoom direct sunlight (in a tropical site).

You can separete baybies, but is better do not....do this only if you need more seedlings and don't have the chance of new leaves.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: gator on August 30, 2014, 03:05:25 pm
I've always done the "Hcc's verticle" approach w/ great success. I can't wait to try out the "Horizontal" method. I've got so many plants now they're self propagating. When observing the fallen leaves that have naturally rooted, it appears that the leaf can fall and land any which way (upside down) and have great chances of rooting.
I was thinking of experimenting by taking a bunch of dead leaves from the yard (a mix of various levels of composted leaves) and laying them in a mat, throwing a bunch of Viridis leaves down on top of the mat of dead leaves, then covering the Viridis w/ more of the leaf/compost mixture and leaving it in a damp, warm, shady place.. The humidity is often 80-100% in my climate. This technique seems effortless and natural in a way, I bet the Viridis would be easy to pick out.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on August 30, 2014, 07:58:35 pm
I've always done the "Hcc's verticle" approach w/ great success.

I really shouldn't have named that approach after myself  :-[

 :D
Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: gator on September 01, 2014, 04:08:31 am
LOL It sounds like a good name to me! The first faq I ever read on Viridis propagation was by Wyrm on the Nexus. I've always called that the Wyrm method, which is what I see most people doing (verticle).
HCC, I love the scientific approach to your experiments. That is how we truly learn and pass on the knowledge to future experimenters!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Tzabaoth on September 06, 2014, 07:35:06 pm
I am very happy with this little rooter.  I put a small piece of leaf in the cloner and in just over a week I have some nice little roots.  This is a homemade cloner in a 3.5 gal bucket with a small sprinkle inside.

Thanks,

.: Tzabaoth
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on October 28, 2014, 01:25:07 am
Is it common for P. viridis to develop woody-looking "trunks" once they get about a foot tall? Or do they have a disease? I can take photos soon if needed.

Also, some of the crown leaves are starting to look slightly "spotty" in the parts of the leaves between the veins. Is this a lack of nutrients? If so, how do I attempt to amend this?

Thank you,
Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on October 28, 2014, 06:40:11 am
Not really sure what to say about the woody trunks you speak of without seeing a picture, it's my understanding that the stem should get a bit more woody once it gets older, but then my viridis never got big enough for me to see that in person :-[  Oh well I have my P. nexus plants now and they're doing great (not quite a foot tall yet).


What colors are these spots? Yellow? Without seeing any pictures, my three top guesses to spots would be:
This is all speculation without pictures.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on November 11, 2014, 03:33:17 am
Heck yeah! Woody trunks are a good sign the plant is maturing. You'll find they do get a little hardier and more able to withstand less than ideal conditions as they get older.

You have reached a major milestone there Hcc!  ;D

I agree about the spots, probably a nutrient deficiency, probably nitrogen.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on November 11, 2014, 05:26:30 pm
Thanks Bach! I was getting worried but that's turned into joy!

I'll get some nigh-nitrogen nutes asap.

Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Shrub on November 25, 2014, 11:46:56 am
Hello



i have a plant that after a long time trying to get them to grow finally took hold, now its getting close to 2 feet tall.

some of the newer leaves are less dark green then the lower ones, is this a problem?

i have close to a dozen leaves from it taking roots in a pot nearby, although i cant see them directly i know their growing very strong.

im worried about fungi and if i should do anything, one is a white fungi which has appeared on the main plant in fluffy blotches, i just have outright removed it when i see it but should i be worried about it?

and in the pot with the leaves taking root i have notices that either a green fungi or algea is forming a layer in there, im not sure if i should worry about it either (i would presume that within limitedextenst it would be helping with the roots getting nutrients)

do i need to remove either or both and if so what is a good way to go about this?

and finally given all the leaves taking root, i am curious about proper method to transport them to keep them alive, i want to find other people to exchange leaves, rooted leaves and saplings so as to increase the genetic diversity i have and i dont know the best way to do this.

and finally, how do viridis produce seeds? do their need to be multiple plants or can they reproduce asexually?

thank you.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on November 25, 2014, 11:37:30 pm
I think the slight gradient in dark green with your 2 ft plant is probably normal; the leaves on the bottom being the oldest have had the longest to mature so it makes sense they would be darker, although it wouldn't hurt to post a picture to make sure.

I have had fungus/molds on the surface of the soil with Psychotria before, some fungi are beneficial to the soil like Mycorrhiza which is white in color. I have an organic fertilizer which has Mycorrhiza and when I added it to the soil with my P. nexus the one pot ended up being completely covered on the top briefly by white fuzz, but the mycelium never tried to eat the sprouts.

I always tried to remove green molds out of the soil if I ever see it, but I haven't seen that with my Psychotria. I generally associate green mold with not enough air flow, try increasing the amount of fresh air exchange in the pot with the green mold. If the problem continues it might be your using soil that's retaining to much water, either from improper soil mix, over-watering, or the water can't drain from the bottom properly.

Whenever I have sent any Psychotria through the mail, it was only rooted leaves, some with sprouts a few inches tall. What I did to keep them alive in transit was to take it out of the soil, rinse off with water, then I wrapped the roots in a moist paper towel (soaked paper towel full, then wrung out until it no longer dripped). I then placed that into a plastic bag and before closing it I would exhale into the bag to give it moisture and CO2. Put that into a box with crumbled up newspaper or bubble wrap and its ready to ship.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Ian Morris on November 26, 2014, 12:47:51 am
The psychotria I was given from a generous member here was shipped unrooted as the plain leaf.

The leaves were packed into a folded coffee filter that was soaked and put into a plastic bag and sealed.  The wet filter only covered about half of the leaf from the stem side.  I made the two leaves into four cuttings and the ones with the stem have already rooted, I am sure the leaf tips will follow.

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: marshmellow on November 26, 2014, 12:53:57 am
I had some fungus in my Psychotria alba when I brought them in for winter. I thought it was kinda cool because I'm a mushroom grower aswell . even though I didn'tgrow this one, I do grow mushrooms in some plants that have the same environment just for fun.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Shrub on November 26, 2014, 03:32:07 am
thank you for all the replies tbm, i have just been worried the lighter colour may be from lack of nitrogen, the thing is taking over a fairly large pot full with thin roots.

the potted leaves are sitting in a long soil pot with a specialized bottom (basicly just a thatching that allows for an actual water pool to collect) that i have left open to drain, soil wise its just a mixture of potting soil which i shifted for clay (which already has allot of coir in it) combined with sand which i cleaned with water incase their was any salt or odd undesirables which would not normally be there because of its source.

their outside and the leaves do get some sun (not all day) and allot of ventilation. the green stuff im not sure if it is algae or fungi, but im hard pressed to reduce the amount of water because i dont want the leaves to dry out and if i have to pull them out and move them to new soil i dont know what a good alternative would be (i do have some vine bark which has been shredded i could use an alternative, i do know their sprouting roots like mad though as it is so i dont know if its something to worry about).

i seriously think part in parcel to my green thumb was cause by getting the birds to fly to my house, their droppings carried fungi and its actually the fungi caring for the plants and not me.

as for shipping thank you to both tbm and ian, i had an inclination i could just take some leaves off, put them in a bag of wet bark with a tiny bit of hydrogen peroxide and then just move them around, the leaves are remarkably hard if slow growing. its rather odd as well because stems seem to be very stubborn in my experience, to take root but the leaves you just have to pretend they were knocked off in a monsoon (hit the plant with a fair amount of water, wait a bit, take off the leaves after a few hours, let them soak overnight in some water as of they were carried in a river crack the stem, let them soak for another hour then put them in soil and if you come back three days later every crack is producing stems), yep the monsoon simulation may be a bit contrived but it seemed like the natural situation leaves would be knock out in and they respond very well once put into soil.)

and just to ask again, anyone have an idea about how they reproduce?

thank you everyone

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on December 10, 2014, 05:17:39 am
In nature they reproduce by seed.  And maybe leaf cloning.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on February 13, 2015, 03:09:49 am
Little bump to this thread with a quick (getting longer daily... sorry) synopsis of the most salient info, for any new viridis growers ...

For soil, use the "Bach mix", which is about 1:1:1 potting soil: perlite:vermiculite. They can go a little heavier on soil as they mature, but the lighter mix is good for rooting. They run the risk of transplant shock, so any changes in soil should be done gradually.

Leaf orientation: People have had success with planting the leaves horizontal, vertical or vertical with much of the leaf buried (see image below, courtesy of hcc). Each seems to root successfully, though it is more likely to have sprouts growing above the soil line with vertical. You can also snap the main stem in several places of the below soil part (accordion method) for any leaf orientation to promote shoots in each spot. You dont't tear it apart completely, just snap the stem and plant same as otherwise.

Humidity is key. You want near 100% humidity because this is going to take awhile and the leaf needs to stay moist to stay alive. Anything from putting the pots into large ziplocks, covering with glass jars, plastic 2-liters, up to more complicated humidity chambers should suffice.

Supply fresh air daily or so (though they've been left to go longer without issue) by opening up your chamber for a few minutes.

Water thoroughly, and keep them moist throughout rooting. Don't let them dry out between waterings, though with the high humidity you may not need to water very often at all.

As for light, PV are understory plants. They are highly susceptible to burn with too intense of lights. They do fine near a window (I'm using an East-facing window) or on the outskirts of an indoor light setup. Outside as they get older, they'll do best under a tree so they get a couple hours of indirect light early or late and are shaded during the high-light hours of the day or under a partial shade cloth.

Temps in the high 70's to 80's are preferable, I believe, but attaching a heat mat or heater to the chamber was unsuccessful for TBM and fried them. I rooted a leaf bit my cat left after he munched a pv in downright cold weather (indoors, but drafty and well below their preferred temps), and it has finally sprouted despite the colder temps.

Then wait. And wait. And wait a little longer. And wait just a bit longer, and... sprouts!  :)

Let me know if anybody sees anything I've missed or should be amended. Thanks!


Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: MirlitonVine on February 14, 2015, 10:09:29 pm
Thanks, I got mine planted today. Check it out.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on February 15, 2015, 05:13:17 am
Nice synopsis there Frog PJs. It should prove helpful to anyone intetrested in growing this plant.

For the record propagation via leaf cutting is a genus-wide phenomenon as far as I can tell. I have sprouted several other Psychotria species including P. horizontalis, P. poeppigiana, P. mapouroides and P. ipecacuana (sp?) all from leaf and while some were more difficult (P. poeppigiana) they all eventually took.

So if anyone comes across rarities like poeppigiana or P. elata, give it a try. (And send me some extras!)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Ian Morris on February 18, 2015, 04:07:51 am
Nothing substantive to add really, but I can repay some love and provide some pics for everyone's enjoyment (although I do appreciate FP's MS Paint breakdown, thanks for the distinctions).  This is the result of about roughly 5 months of fall/winter sun in a small humidity box with peat pellets done in the vertical style.  These started as two leaves (thanks marshmellow) and each time central vein sprouts roots I would let the longest get about a cm and then I would clip off a couple of cm worth of leaf and put it in its own pellet.  Slow growing but really determined to survive, perfect kind of plant. 

These pics were taken just before separating another central vein and using up all the spaces in my humidity box.  You can see that the tips of some of the new roots have started to blacken (I'm guessing low humidity only because I have been absent minded of late and other factors haven't changed, plus the ones growing from the pellet bottoms seem to have no determinate ending and just keep growing) but its no big deal.  The central vein has enough healthy looking new roots to take hold and start the process all again.

Enough chat, lets all do our part and make sure this magical plant spreads wherever it is needed.

Thanks to FP and everyone else for upping the ante and getting this invasion rolling.
Special thanks to Bach and all the other real pioneers who brought this magic to the masses to begin with. 
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: oplopanax on February 18, 2015, 06:41:08 pm
Just wanted to say that I got all my leaf cuttings potted up!

Once they root out I'm going to need to give away a lot of plants, since there are now 18 4 inch pots in my very small house that is already so full of plants...
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on March 10, 2015, 02:20:50 am
Got mine planted :D yay !

A few came with large black spots creeping along the stem and such, I suspect it might be some kind of mold so I seperated them, so they cant to any harm to the others.

All others went in all sorts of different mixes of potting mix, sphagnum, perlite, vermiculite sand ... and also in many things in pure form too. Then I put them in this cool probably cheapo but still cool grow tent I once got as a present, it has a heat mat in there (if you look closely you might spot a 5 kg copper bar in there ... well the story behind that is that I really would like to say the only intention is preventing hotspots from the heat mats heating element ... but well, the metal workshop os crowded with metal, gotta store it somewhere :D ) which will heat it to desirable temperatures with a little thermostat pickup you can place anywhere (places it in a containers dead space and set 25 deg C)

All leaves (and the cutting and the root ( is ist a psych root I got ?)) are individually put into plastic boxes the ms. always saves (and goes nuts when she finds I was using them for sth she didnt intend theese for :D ) with different amounts of dead space / air. Some are in pots covered with bags because either the ms. didnt do a very good job saving theese plastic containers or I used too many recently :D :D :D

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: MirlitonVine on March 12, 2015, 11:48:12 am
I didn't have enough pots for mine, so I planted a few in the ground in my greenhouse. One of them already has little bud looking things coming out of the back vein. It's dark now but later I'll post a pic.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on March 17, 2015, 10:15:42 am
Hey folks,

this doesnt look good :(
When I got the leaves some in the batch where black / brown and I sorted them right out. Now this one turns brown too, itappears like there was an infection that only showed on some leaves when they arrived but is on many or even all   :'( is that possible ? Is it okay for the leave to turn brown ? Might it be too humid or too badly vented ?

Thanks a lot
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on March 17, 2015, 03:51:58 pm
Looks kind of like rot since it's right on the main vein at the soil. It could be that the soil is too wet, I would consider trimming off that lower affected area and replanting in new soil. The small black spot on the side of it should be fine to leave alone as long as it doesn't spread anymore.... the top of the leaf could be the same as the rest of the spots, but could also be from low humidity...
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on March 18, 2015, 04:28:07 am
Saving it might be difficult, but cut it just above were the black ends on the midrib.

IME that kind of rot is likely to kill it altogether and could have started from a number of things including mechanical damage or exposure to too much cold.

Don't worry though there are always more where that came from, and given enough demand I could be persuaded to do another giveaway.   8)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Greench on March 19, 2015, 05:26:35 pm
I've got the same brown/black issue on the leaves I just received.
I removed all the non-green colours before potting. Hopefully, that will be enough... but considering the time they take to grow roots, I'm a bit skeptical.
Wait and see...  ;)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on March 19, 2015, 06:40:31 pm
To me it appears the cause for the brownish spots comes during lengthy shipping. Those in the spaghnum appear to be best btw :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on March 20, 2015, 02:02:34 am
If we do it again and I'm the shipper, I'll send directly to each of you so they make it in better shape. It was a little cold too, and surely it was even colder in transit.

I think they could be packed sufficiently and compactly enough to keep cost down with some packaging care.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on March 23, 2015, 04:32:05 pm
Wow !

I expected this to take a while ! I have been checking on the leaves and what shall I say: The leaves in the Spaghnum & perlite, the leaves in the perlite and the leaves in the possing mix & perlite all show roots on the snapped vein and on the "stem" :D

I know shoots are another stage from here but yeah ! wohoo, Im so happy.

The roots are roughly 5mm in average and sure growing strong. Do they need a tiny tiny amount of nutrients soon ? Since obviously the perlite and Spaghnum ones wont finf any.

I think this rocks. I didnt take pictures yet since I am not sure if its a good idea to check for roots anyway so I only peeked in there :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on March 23, 2015, 05:29:40 pm
When I was propagating viridis with only sphagnum moss I didn't add any nutrients and some were sprouting up with 1-2 sets of leaves! That was when I took them out and moved them to soil, or sent them out for trades. Although, adding some nutrients shouldn't hurt. No worries about pics if you're worried about unnecessary root shock!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on March 27, 2015, 04:08:44 am
They don't really need nutes at that stage. I've been known to be lazy sometimes and let them get 4 or 5 sets of leaves before potting them up. Low nutes really don't seem to bother them much.

Once you do feed them, worm castings work very well and osmocote is very good too, but only for those who aren't too fussy about being organic.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: SoulGrower on March 27, 2015, 01:45:44 pm
This touches on something I've actually been thinking about lately.  Keeping my babies in high humidity enclosures or with ziplock bags over the containers.. the media seems to take a very long time to dry out.  Therefore, I'm not really delivering nutrients regularly.  I've wondered if foliar applications of nutrients would be of benefit?

Although, bc these guys grow so slowly, maybe they're not taking the nutrients out of the media any faster than it takes to dry...
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on March 27, 2015, 04:14:01 pm
Low nutes really don't seem to bother them much.

Once you do feed them, worm castings work very well and osmocote is very good too, but only for those who aren't too fussy about being organic.

These guys are about 2 years old I think. Do you remember when the first set of leaves came in Bach?

Anyway, I've never given them nutrients other that worm castings. They've only been repotted once, from 4" containers to what they're in now. I use the "Bach Mix" and chuck in some worm castings.

After they got woody trunks, they started sending out a different type of leaf formation that comes out of the nodes, i.e. they start branching (pic 2).



Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on March 31, 2015, 11:28:49 pm
Have a chance to check on the PV leaves :)

They are doing goooood ! All even those that I had to cut off much because of the brown. Sprouts: not yet, roots: plenty ! :D

I made the obersvation mine grow roots everywhere, most likely on the stem and snapped vein points. Then they also like to root where ever they have been hurt, also on the brown parts, so the brown actually appears beneficial as of now :) Also they even grow air roots from the part that sticks out.

Awesome
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Roze on April 11, 2015, 04:10:15 pm
I have this leave in a cup of water, on a sunny window at room temperature for + 5 months.

 I don't take any special measures with her, just change the water every week and she is doing fine: long roots and 4 new shoots.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: EIRN on April 14, 2015, 03:13:52 am
I have this leave in a cup of water, on a sunny window at room temperature for + 5 months.

 I don't take any special measures with her, just change the water every week and she is doing fine: long roots and 4 new shoots.

The yellow veins are indicating lack of some nutrient. It is time to put in a soil mix. Shoots are big enough.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on April 14, 2015, 03:30:08 am
Roze Roze ... Rainwater ?  ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on April 14, 2015, 05:03:55 am
Wow guys! It does my heart good knowing you are having success with those leaf cuttings. Keep it up.  ;D Karma points all around!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on April 14, 2015, 10:00:12 pm

*_* Peeeeepzzzz !

Guess who saw tiny winy leave like structures gathering at the roots ! Beginning of leaves and shoots I guess. Just awesome ! :D

Update: When watering I tipped one over, what a mess ! But I thought if it is already out of the pot I may show it around. It's the one that I worried most about, originally. It had all sorts of black spots which I cut away. It is really amazing how one could nearly say theese plant benefit from things being rough. You can nicely see how roots will develope at points where a vein has been injuried preferably. Its good this one will also make it.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: MirlitonVine on April 16, 2015, 04:03:55 am
Here's an update on mine as well.

I had planted 3 in one pot, 2 in another, as I didn't have many pots. The remainder I planted in the ground next to seed grown psychotria and the caapi vine. I gave the pot with 2 to my freind (I like to give plants away).

So now I have more pots after I planted some of my plants in the ground. I took 2 out of the pot and left the middle one. I didn't notice any shoots (didn't look too hard though), but nice root development.

Like someone said above, one of them in the ground seems to have developed some sort of air roots? Like 2 little structures coming out of oppisite sides of the back vein.

Thanks for the leaves Bach, that was an awesome welcome to STS!

Anyway here's the two I re-planted.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on April 19, 2015, 06:17:09 pm
Is anyone else having trouble rooting #6?

I had 4 and 3 have succumb to the black rot. The last one has a big spot of it and is just barely hanging on.

All the other #'s (1,3,7) have done fine in the same conditions.

Thanks,
Hcc
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on April 30, 2015, 03:54:16 pm
So finally my shoots are big enough and my internet is good enough to show them around :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on April 30, 2015, 04:47:49 pm
Is anyone else having trouble rooting #6?

Thanks,
Hcc

My 6's are behind the others too.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: gnosis on April 30, 2015, 07:26:23 pm
Forgot about these seeds for awhile again and they grew in the container in the closet
I transplanted them to containers and also put some in my new aeroponic tower garden.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on May 01, 2015, 07:12:38 am
That's interesting about #6 being slower than the others since the mother plant is the biggest, hardiest one of the bunch.   ???
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on May 07, 2015, 03:19:37 pm
And the winner to first shoots is....

#2 in the horizontal planting method!!

edit: just did another closer inspection, and a couple #3's planted with the vertical method are the runners up! The next few weeks look like they're going to be exciting with new babies.  :) 8)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Greentoe on May 08, 2015, 12:48:27 am
That's interesting about #6 being slower than the others since the mother plant is the biggest, hardiest one of the bunch.   ???

#6 is the first one thats put out a shoot for me so far
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on May 13, 2015, 01:51:22 pm
Got shoots now on the 2, 3, 6, and 7! It's happening!!  ;D <3
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on May 18, 2015, 02:12:15 am
Good news here too !

After the suprisingly early shoots on the leaf in perlite (4 shoots) Ive got shoots on all three leaves in a perlite vermiculite mix, and shoots on a heavily trimmed back leaf in potting mix :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on June 05, 2015, 05:46:26 am
This was naaaaaaat exactly my intensions, well as far as I can tell the Psychotria appears fine :) but theres a mushroom, should I reduce moisture or can the P simply coexist with my shroom, can I find out what kind of mushroom it is with considerable effort ? Maybe someone on here knows to ID shrooms ?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on June 05, 2015, 06:01:51 am
Hmmm.... not sure what species, looks like the sprouts are doing alright, does it smell bad?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on June 05, 2015, 06:27:04 am
Nah, and in fact the soil was pretty dry i have just watered it. So theres no obstacles to their coexistence ? maybe its even beneficial ?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Toxicodendron on June 13, 2015, 06:57:05 pm
Having just received a cache of leaf cuttings, I have a chance to show a pic or two of how I root Psychotria usually.

Nothing new here, other than to add that the mix is ProMix with live mycorrhizae. I mist with very light H2O2 solution to keep mold spores at bay. Two levels down on a chrome kitchen shelf from a 4 bulb T-5 fixture.

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Greench on June 16, 2015, 02:35:20 pm
Is propagation of P. Alba identical to P. Viridis?
What would you do with that? Nothing, cover with a bit of soil or transplant/bury entirely?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on June 16, 2015, 04:34:20 pm
The techniques posted here for P. viridis should work for P. alba, looks like it's already rooting!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: BubbleCat on June 17, 2015, 04:55:36 pm
I decided to vent my PV, since they almost always sit fully sealed with their 100% humidity. I used the opportunity to take a picture. It really amazes me nothing is moldy.

As far as I can tell by now:

The leaves can survive extremely long as long they dont dry out. Choping up a leaf would result in several plants. Roots and shoots do nearly only appear underground. Also roots and shoots are most likely to appear where the leaf was damaged, either by cutting, sunburn and other spots, or snapping. So yeah they really like a rough handling before planting and even tho they arrive in poor condition they'll still pick up.

The mushroom PV did peacefully coexist with its companion.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Greench on June 17, 2015, 11:32:00 pm
looks like it's already rooting!
Yup, that's the only leaf that is sprouting aerial roots like that (on both sides of the leaf!), along the main vein.
I'm just not sure if I should cover them, or transplant and risk damage, or do nothing and wait.

Also, when roots have appeared, do you still keep the cuttings at 100% RH until shoots appear?

Regarding my very limited experience in rooting these :
- snapping the main vein doesn't seem to work for me. The roots always appear at the end of the petiole.
- I did get roots from small bits of leaves (smaller than a square inch), but no shoots yet.
- a very simple method that seems to work well is to put the leaf in a closed jar with an inch of water at the bottom. Once in a while, I open the jar to renew air and change the water.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on June 18, 2015, 01:55:23 am
It should be totally fine if you leave the aerial roots alone. The little plantlet will grow happily right there, and the high humidity will protect the roots.

You probably want to keep the humidity at 100% as long as they're attached to the mother leaf. It acts like a solar panel feeding the babies, and it will hold up a long time in humidity and not otherwise.

A lot of people cut a majority of the leaf off and replant it for separate new plants once sprouts come up, and that works well. I prefer to leave the leaf with the first sprouts attached until the leaf is totally shot.

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Chicsa on June 27, 2015, 06:29:47 pm
Nexus Hybrid and #3
Photoed is Nexus Hybrid which I assume was first.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on June 29, 2015, 05:44:16 am
This is your goal.  ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on June 29, 2015, 05:52:44 am
The first pic is one of my propagation benches. There are relatively new specimens from Selby Gardens, the Kampong, and a Shipibo strain, as well as the Nexus hybrid and several other non-Pv oddities and rarities that shall go unnamed...

The second pic is a batch of babies that germinated in the pot of one of the mother plants. I'm gonna have more than I know what to do with. (And that's not a bad thing!)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: sporehead on June 29, 2015, 09:08:02 am
How much light can this plant take? I have baby carthagenesis that have been around for a month or more. Th3y are in indirect light leaning to more light. The yage group is in full sun here.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on June 29, 2015, 05:07:36 pm
Carth and alba can take anything from full shade to full sun, but I wouldn't expose your seedlings to full sun yet.

Viridis likes it shadier but some people keep theirs in full sun. I have never done that; mine get an hour or two of direct morning sun and maybe half an hour in the late afternoon.

They are all understory plants in habitat so they are well adapted to varying light conditions.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Toxicodendron on August 06, 2015, 07:28:05 pm
Seven weeks in, and the Nexus is the first to pop up! All of the other varieties still have turgid leaves, so odds are pretty good they will pop up in time.

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: FewTrueSeed on August 31, 2015, 05:48:42 am
Thought I would share my virdis and alba. One of my first trades. They may get a little too much sun sometimes being in the greenhouse. They are growing fast though.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on August 31, 2015, 09:41:57 pm
Nice! Looks like it's sprouting a bit too pale of a green, what kind of soil is it in? Might be lacking some nutrients.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: FewTrueSeed on August 31, 2015, 10:00:12 pm
It's a local organic potting soil. My hunch is that it gets too much sun. My coffee seedling gets a bit pale like that too. They are both under the top shelf n the greenhouse which gets ten or so hours of light right now. I think I'll get both into a more shady spot.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on September 01, 2015, 03:37:15 am
Is it common for leaf sprouts to have triple leaves? Not sure if it will be a stable trait but found it interesting.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on September 01, 2015, 03:51:47 am
I have a P. nexus sprout that started with 3 cotyledons but then switched to two with the next set, doesn't appear to have negatively affected anything yet, although it's still fairly young yet. Those 3 first leaves did eventually fall off.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on September 01, 2015, 01:07:20 pm
You're likely right about too much light, but the soil might be too heavy too. They do really well in the "Bach" mix- 1:1:1 potting soil:perlite:vermiculite.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: FewTrueSeed on September 01, 2015, 08:30:01 pm
I was inspired to re-pot using that formula. Thanks. I did my coffee and Myer lemon clone as well. Should I fertilize them a tiny bit once they are settled? I lifted them up a bit as well. The stems should become strong. They are shaded now.

How the heck to I resize images????
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on September 01, 2015, 10:26:26 pm
You could fertilize with worm castings, you don't need to wait for roots to settle if you use castings, just add a thin layer on the surface when you water next.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on September 02, 2015, 04:37:47 am
Great thread!  I just read it again today and picked up some new ideas.  First, I'm going to try that 1:1:1 mix on my next rooting and compare it with the 2:1:1 I've been using.  Willing to try anything to improve results.  Well, almost anything. :).

Is there a recommended type of soil?  There are some that recommend Peat-based, Coir-based, or even pine bark based.

Post #31 links to a thread on another forum that discusses using pine bark based soil rather than peat based.  That thread is by someone that goes by Ringworm.  I read that sometime ago and started using pine bark last year in place of peat.  I had a bad experience with peat based soil but that may only be due to using it full strength.

I'm doing a comparison right now between pine bark versus coir and a mixture of the two.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on September 02, 2015, 01:55:03 pm
I think they will do ok with any soil type.

Ringworm knows what he's talking about, and the pine based I think is supposed to keep mold at bay.

I have always just used some good Fox Farm or something and watered with a 1% hydrogen peroxide if mold starts looking like an issue.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on September 17, 2015, 01:40:18 am
So here are two of my viridis leaf cuttings... I have one more that looks quite shitty but is starting to do better now outside. I've had trouble with viridis leaf cuttings so a friend sent me a few rooted ones. I still managed to kill a few but think it is was due to poor conditions indoors and wrong soil not allowing the soil to breath, basically pure peat.

I hope that the tri-leaf trait remains into maturity  ;D fingers crossed. This is the second set of leaves and the next set is coming soon.

I'll be trying again once my plants grow large enough.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on September 17, 2015, 02:02:41 am
Those little guys look like they are doing well. Whatever you are doing now, keep it up and you'll soon be overrun with them. Well, maybe in ten years or so!  ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Greench on September 18, 2015, 05:10:30 pm
I've got two of these in water. They've been in there for.... months.  ;D
It works but much slower than in soil. One of them has greening roots, the other not. I should have potted them long ago, but for science, you know...  ;)
Most of my cuttings have been repotted in basic soil a week ago, not sure how they'll like it...
Should I let the soil dry completely before watering if there is no perlite/vermi/..?

Cheers!  :D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: FewTrueSeed on September 18, 2015, 05:54:32 pm
I would encourage you to get petite and vermiculite as frog pajamas suggested to me. I repotted mine in said mix and they are no longer showing signs of stress. Plus I started another that was sent to me. What fun! :D

At what point can I tell virdis from alba? Plants are distinguishable but I'm not familiar with the differences.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on September 27, 2015, 11:31:31 pm
At what point can I tell virdis from alba? Plants are distinguishable but I'm not familiar with the differences.

If you see domatia on the underside of the mother leaf, it is Viridis.  Some Viridis do not show domatia on all leaves but Alba never do. 

The next test is leaf margins.  Viridis margins travel the entire petiole.  Alba margins leave petiole exposed.   The plants should be a few inches tall for this test.

The next test is flowering.  If they flower white and are about a year old --Alba.  Viridis flower green in about 4 years I hear.  Mine haven't flowered yet.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on October 09, 2015, 03:36:38 am
Just a follow up on 'Trinity' the following set of leaves remained with 3 leaves. Going to start acclimating it to the outdoors.

What low temps does viridis starts to struggle with? 50s or 40s? Wondering if I'll need to bring some plants indoors come January.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on October 09, 2015, 03:49:37 am
Small ones like that I'd keep inside most of the winter. Once they get six inches tall or so they begin to get hardier and can safely take it into the 50's. With time they will tolerate right down to the mid-30s, but as you know don't ever let them actually freeze or get frosted.

Once you start getting seeds they can be stored in the fridge for quite some time. I've done it for up to six months and they retain good viabilty.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on November 01, 2015, 08:43:03 pm
Anyone experimenting with soil ph for psychotria?  I've noticed that my fastest growing Viridis has a soil ph of 6.6 while all of the others are closer to ph7.  I had thought the growth difference was genetic but I'm beginning to wonder if it's simply environmental.

Psychotria is in the Rubiaceae plant family along with coffee.  I read here:   http://www.coffeeresearch.org/agriculture/soil.htm
that the best producing coffee plantations in Brazil had soil ph from 6.0 to 6.5 and I wanted to see if the same applied to Psychotria.  I  have to confess that I wasn't keeping very good records of my earlier soil experiments when I was varying the addition of pine bark fines (ph 4.5) to my soil mix but I'm sure that's the reason for my low ph reading.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on November 01, 2015, 09:05:04 pm
Has anyone done stem cuttings? The 2 I tried just rotted after 2 weeks :/ Wondering if anyone had any tips.

I'd like to have some stem clones for some experiments next year
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on November 01, 2015, 09:43:05 pm
Yes, I have done 4 so far with 100% success in rooting.  All rooted in water and covered with a plastic bag (100% humidity) until roots formed.  My humidity dome at 80% is not good enough until roots have formed first.  Then I plant them in a 3" pot and keep them in the dome until ready to transplant. 

The maximum diameter of the cuttings rooted was less than 1/8th inch.  However, I don't know of any reason this method wouldn't work on larger diameter cuttings.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on November 01, 2015, 10:27:17 pm
Thanks I'll try one in water, guess the soil I used caused the rot.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: EIRN on November 02, 2015, 01:12:31 am
Stem cutting works as well leaf cutting...and the same method, in water. I my experience, humidity dome isn't needed.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on November 02, 2015, 01:36:44 am
I my experience, humidit dome isn't needed.
This is just one more reason to live in Brazil.   :) You can grow Psychotria in the ground along with Caapi all year long.  Also you don't need humidity domes to root Psychotria stems?   :-\

Without a dome, leaves crisp-up for me before they root, much less stems.  Sheesh!  ;)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on November 03, 2015, 08:35:34 pm
Sounds like stem cuttings in water is the way to go. My experiment with stem cuts was in perlite/vermiculite and a humidity chamber outside in the shade during a Florida summer.  Only got a 12% strike rate (6/50),  so obviously that's not the way to do it.

Anybody try a bubble chamber?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: mj on November 08, 2015, 09:27:04 am
Has anyone done stem cuttings? The 2 I tried just rotted after 2 weeks :/ Wondering if anyone had any tips.

I'd like to have some stem clones for some experiments next year

I took a P. Alba stem cutting about 8 inches tall and removed all the large leaves leaving six small leaves the longest perhaps a little longer than my thumb, powdered a little number one rooting hormone on the stem which I scored with a razor knife in about 8 or 10 places and stuck it into a mix of potting soil 1/3 - coconut coir 1/3 - and the remaining third is half vermiculite half perlite I also threw in a little chopped up pine bark to keep the pot fungus free no worries there so far. Took about six weeks with a small baggie humidity tent, kept her at about 23 degrees C. I cut up the leaves which had been removed from the trim job on the stem cutting and they set root in a few weeks with one producing a small stem with two small leaves. I did the leaf cuttings in half size zip lock baggies with wet paper towels and a little number one rooting hormone. By the look of things I am going to have more plants from the leaf cuttings than I am going to know what to do with. Sure feels great to see these things develop roots and sprout baby stems and leaves. I hope that  Psychotria Viridis propagates from leaves as well as the Alba does. Hope that helps
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on November 08, 2015, 02:16:01 pm
 
I hope that the Psychotria Viridis propagates from leaves as well as the Alba does. Hope that helps

Great job with the alba mj :) although you can skip the rooting hormone --I've found that it doesn't make a difference.  I grew alba for 3 years thinking it was Viridis.  I have small growing space so I got rid of them all to make way for Viridis.  They're very stubborn though as I have them popping up in the yard from seeds fallen in years past.

Viridis is a degree more difficult to grow as it has a more narrow ph range and temperature tolerance.  Frustrating at times but you have the basics if you ever want to give Viridis a go.  Also, there is great information in this topic well worth the read from beginning http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.0 great tips from knowledgeable members with more experience than me. Happy growing :D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: madmonkeyz on February 29, 2016, 03:17:46 am
whats wrong with my p.viridis? they are now 3 months+.
their leaves are not dark green?
why?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on February 29, 2016, 03:31:10 am
Could be nutrients.  Need more information and pictures would help.  3 months from rooting?    Are they in soil?  If in soil, what is the mix? ???
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: madmonkeyz on February 29, 2016, 04:16:12 am
1:1:1 compost soil:vermiculite:perlite

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on February 29, 2016, 05:00:03 am
What kind of lighting does it have? Natural or artificial lights/how far from the lamp? Looks like it might be etiolated. Have you ever given it fertilizer?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on February 29, 2016, 05:34:11 am
Yep, it could be lighting related,  I forgot to ask about that.  I use low natural light and don't have any issues. 

Can eliminate drainage as an issue --your mixture is very good for drainage.  Also, the leaves are nicely formed so some nutrients are available.

If your lighting is ok,  it appears that either some nutrients are lacking or something is interfering with nutrient uptake? These plants prefer 6-7 ph.  I water with distilled water to provide this.

But still, I'm leaning toward nutrient deficiency.  This post has some nutrient charts http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=2900.msg23403#msg23403. Maybe iron? ???

Something to think about but be careful not to overdo nutes.  These tender plants are easily burned.




Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: madmonkeyz on February 29, 2016, 06:26:24 am
What kind of lighting does it have? Natural or artificial lights/how far from the lamp? Looks like it might be etiolated. Have you ever given it fertilizer?

natural light. but not direct.
never give any fertilizer so far. i have been thinking of giving them fish emulsion fertilizer. is that ok for them?

Yep, it could be lighting related,  I forgot to ask about that.  I use low natural light and don't have any issues. 

Can eliminate drainage as an issue --your mixture is very good for drainage.  Also, the leaves are nicely formed so some nutrients are available.

If your lighting is ok,  it appears that either some nutrients are lacking or something is interfering with nutrient uptake? These plants prefer 6-7 ph.  I water with distilled water to provide this.

But still, I'm leaning toward nutrient deficiency.  This post has some nutrient charts http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=2900.msg23403#msg23403. Maybe iron? ???

Something to think about but be careful not to overdo nutes.  These tender plants are easily burned.


could it be chlorine in the tap water? thanks for the links. really helpful.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on February 29, 2016, 01:21:17 pm
I know HCC was having issues with viridis and tap water. I think his did better once he starting using rain water.

They don't look bad anyways, in my opinion, and I wouldn't do anything drastic. Check ph of your water, switch to rain if possible.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on February 29, 2016, 02:43:05 pm
could it be chlorine in the tap water?

Chlorine has some effect as it kills microorganisms that break compost into nutrients but concentration in drinking water is usually pretty low.  The top layer of soil should neutralize it.  But I agree with Frog Pajamas on watering with rainwater if possible.  I collect rainwater for this purpose and use distilled water when I run low.

My ghetto rain water collection system:  http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=1437.msg23280#msg23280
 :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on February 29, 2016, 08:44:45 pm
^makes me want to jerry-rig something to collect rain water 8) If you're worried about chlorine in tap water, just leave it in in an open container for a few hours, the chlorine will evaporate.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: misplant on March 14, 2016, 06:33:28 pm
without reading the whole thread, has anyone successfully grafted viridis onto alba stems?


hmmmm, I may have a use for that alba I cant seem to get rid of  :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on March 14, 2016, 07:02:32 pm
I've read elsewhere that It's possible to do but I don't recall anyone on the forum mentioning that they've had success with it.  Thinking about trying it myself this year.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: thunderhorse on March 15, 2016, 02:51:08 pm
(http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/monthly_03_2016/post-14443-0-61787900-1458047946.jpg) (http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/monthly_03_2016/post-14443-0-97848800-1458047979.jpg) (http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/monthly_03_2016/post-14443-0-76645600-1458048055.jpg) (http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/monthly_03_2016/post-14443-0-61476500-1458048090.jpg) (http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/monthly_03_2016/post-14443-0-84575700-1458048202.jpg) (http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/monthly_03_2016/post-14443-0-51921600-1458048239.jpg) (http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/monthly_03_2016/post-14443-0-93238600-1458048273.jpg)
and to see if i can pump a lil more from the leaf afterwards..
(http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/uploads/monthly_03_2016/post-14443-0-80008200-1458048427.jpg)

which is as far as i got for trying the "windowsill tek" - photes ripped from a post i made at SAB that i thought might help some readers here too..

had good times with viridis in my rainforest box but still far from perfect in there without some real sunshine ..
-only been at it with viridis successfully for about 2 years now or thereabouts..
but managed to get woody trunks in the rainforest box and it's good to know from this thread that that is a major thing regarding successful viridery :3
it was a struggle to get genuine viridis in uk .. only found it here once ..
and i owe all my successes so far with this beauty of a species to MP  8)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on March 15, 2016, 04:24:09 pm
Nice! The sprouts look healthy! The mother leaf on the other hand looks like it's almost spent, always worth seeing if it'll produce more sprouts though! If that mother leaf still has life left in it, it'll probably be a few months until you see more sprouts pop up.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: thunderhorse on March 17, 2016, 02:06:27 am
that leaf is so productive I already had 2 goes from it before and it's rooting all over and even sprouting at the tip of the leaf a whole plantlet :3

they start rooting in 2 weeks for me in aeroponics :3

will check it in 2 weeks if i remember and post - will be gearing up to move house tho so plz excuse if i forget at the 2 week mark

-will also be nice to see how fast the shoots come too using that post as the date marker
I believe i sped up the aeroponics method even more by using moss..

-just so glad to have them happen faster than expected
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on April 19, 2016, 01:41:49 pm
So I'll be doing a plant hormone experiment similar to the one happyconcacti did a while back. I've found out to my dismay that ga3 in high concentrations will kill leafy plants(lost a few plants I've had for a few years). Cacti can handle close to 1000 ppm without dying but leaf plants will die. Cacti at high ga3 will stall for a while so not really a plus. Anything past 200 ppm will mainly affect flowering slowing growth. Over 500 ppm may kill plants.

I'll be experimenting with ga3 and naa both at 50 and 100 ppm and combos of the two on unrooted leaf cuttings. Will be rooting in pure coir horizontally in circle to fit in 3 inch pots. Naa effects root structure and growth not purely for rooting. Will be applied by soaking for a minute in solution then planted in high humidity. 1 control leaf not treatment just water soak.

Hope to have quicker and larger shoots. Ga3 breaks down naturally and naa in low amounts is considered safe. May also add another pgh but don't want to add too many variables. There are some plant 'steroids' that have many pros and are natural and safe which can help with viridis growth rate.


My grafting to kratom was a bust and stem on viridis turned black after cut likely infection ultimately killing it(very upsetting). For those that are able to experiment should try it as it may be worth while.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: LIBERTYNY on April 26, 2016, 04:51:33 am
 Whats the longest time it has taken for a PV leave to root/sprout  ?

 I planted 6 half leaves on 11-18-2016,  Their all still mostly green.  I pulled on up from the medium today and it has a decent root system but no sprout yet ?

  Seems to be taking a very long time

I have them in a humidity chamber at about 70-75 deg F under 3 CFL's, along with caapi's kratom, kanna. Which will likely be moved to a sunny window tomorow
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on April 26, 2016, 05:01:52 am
I planted 11 leaves in soil mix last September.  Most have sprouted within the last month or 2 but there are 3 or four that still haven't sprouted - 7 months now.  The same set of leaf clones all sprouted in water within 3 months.  There were some leaves from another clone I started in August that seemed to grow at the same rate whether soil or water though.

I'm guessing that the difference must be that the focus is more on the root when planted in soil.  I haven't dug any of them up to compare though. 

Now for the longest ever for me in water was 4 months.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: sporehead on April 26, 2016, 06:19:36 am
Sounds like the same leaves i got during the giveaway. All but one has sent up shoots. I'm sure the last will. They took between two months and four months.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: mj on April 26, 2016, 07:04:22 am
I have some PV seeds originally from Brazil said to be used by the church there. I also have some PV seeds said to be from Peru and then I have a few of Bach's bird poop PV seeds. I really meant to get these going in Oct or November last fall but I was busy and had both my hands and my grow box full with leaf cuttings. I was able to share a lot of the seeds that I had with a number of others (some here) so maybe some of them will remember and comment on both the time they took to germinate as well as the germination rate of the seeds that they got.
   I know that I have left these a long time, a lot longer than I should have and that the germination rate will have suffered as a result.
   So what I am doing right now is running these seeds in a small rock tumbler filled with coarse builders sand (sharp edges). The first batch of the Brazilian PV seeds are in the machine now entering into day two of tumbling. I am attempting to reduce the thickness of the seed coating by about half or more. The idea is that if the seed coating is thinner then the expanding seed will expend less energy to break free so less energy (carbohydrate used up by the germination process). Also germination should be faster with a thinner seed coat and the plants ought to have more available energy to get growing with. Looking like I will be the best part of a week before I am ready (three batches of different PV seeds at two days each in the tumbler) to then overnight soak the seeds and then see how many and how quickly they germinate. I plan to germinate in moist paper towels in a zip lock baggie. I had excellent results with this method with my leaf cuttings. I may add a little very finely chopped up sphagnum moss to make sure the seeds have air surrounding them and I will powder them with a fungal inoculent so that the emerging roots make immediate contact and the symbiotic process begins asap.
   I will count all the seeds in each batch and will report back when they sprout and let you know how it went providing time and numbers.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on April 26, 2016, 12:05:33 pm
Well the leaves I was planning on doing the pgh matrix turned out to be alba. I don't want that many alba due to space issue so will reduce to ga3 50ppm, naa 50ppm and combo with a control. Maybe in the future I'll do a larger matrix. Ill post results when I have any.

The lighter the mix the quicker the sprout for me but Ive had very mixed results... 2-3 months seems to be the amount of time it takes for me usually but I only tried planting in the summer.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on April 27, 2016, 12:53:00 am
So today I started two experiments repeated twice. Alba (large leaf and small in different sets 4 each) with 1 control, ga3 50 ppm, ga3+naa 50 ppm and tria 1ppm +ga3+naa 50ppm done twice with alba leaves. Also Viridis and Nexus each with 1 control, triacontanol 1ppm, tria 1ppm+ ga3 50ppm, and tria ppm +ga3+naa 50ppm each. I didn't have enough of the same clone to do a larger matrix so just used the common concentrations used in papers. tria at 1 ppm ga at 50 ppm is common with 100 sometimes being better and naa 40 ppm is usually the best but 50 is close enough (may actually be closer to 40 ppm as I used a salt form which likely isn't very 'pure' like 70% I think but idk.

Leafs were soaked in PGH for 1 minute then placed in coir and watered.

I folded the leaves in 3 to fit easily in 3inch pots in 100% coir. Was gonna 'circle' them without snapping but stem too ridged. The pgh were written on the pot and mixed 'randomly' but not enough I think.
(http://i.imgur.com/wO4WJsy.jpg?1)

Hoping for quicker sprouts or possibly larger/stronger sprouts. Will post here again when I get my first sprout probably around June or July.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bruce on April 28, 2016, 01:41:52 am
I see alot of you have trouble with transplanting and humidity, has anyone tried using an anti-transpirant to reduce shock/stress on your plantlets?

Product like this: http://www.agrobest.com.au/products/Envy-37.html

I'll bet my leftie that will help improve success rates (but I have not tried on P. viridis)

This thread has piqued my interest, I may have to get me some leaves!

;)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on April 28, 2016, 12:54:20 pm
Has anyone ever run or seen viridis in DWC? I'm gonna get a small pump and experiment with it and am just considering which plants to use. Not sure if roots are too fragile for it.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on April 28, 2016, 03:15:51 pm


This thread has piqued my interest, I may have to get me some leaves!


All you have to do is ask!  ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: oriky on April 28, 2016, 04:44:49 pm


This thread has piqued my interest, I may have to get me some leaves!


All you have to do is ask!  ;D

can i be rude and ask for some leaves?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: TBM on April 28, 2016, 05:59:42 pm
Make all requests either in the appropriate subforum or in the form of a private message :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on April 28, 2016, 08:52:51 pm
STS does have the Florida Psychotria Viridis guru here.  We bow to the mighty Bach.  :P ;) ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bruce on April 29, 2016, 03:03:19 am
Mighty kind Sir, I shall have to repair my hot house and get back to you! Ty

In the meantime, if anyone does try Envy I'd love to know how you go... I've seen it do some amazing stuff first hand and I think it is somewhat of a trade secret (wholesale nursery industry). I'd better duck for cover when the industry peeps see this.... lol
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Biotopia on April 29, 2016, 03:48:08 am
So I've read through most of this thread and I have a question.  I have some leaves in a humidity chamber and I want to plant them in a terrarium but some have mentioned "gnarly" growth when a more mature plant is left at 100% humidity.  I'm wondering if the cause of "gnarly" growth is high humidity or lack of air flow?  The terrarium with be air injected so they will stay at 100% humidity but also have fresh air exchange.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on June 10, 2016, 01:11:39 am
So a follow up on pgh experiement. Just 1 month after planting the leafs the alba control, viridis #6 control, (triacontanol 1ppm) and (tria 1ppm+ ga3 50ppm) (Only green callous) have sprouted. The sprouts are still quite small so not much difference between them at the moment. The alba control is larger and sprouted last week. The alba 50 ga3 rotted. These are the sprouts I've noticed and there might be others... after another month 2 two differences should be noticeable if any.

I was surprised that the viridis #6 sprouted before the nexus and even most other alba leaf cuttings.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: mj on June 10, 2016, 01:23:51 am
   Modern I would be dancing just like the guy in your Avatar if I got any of my Psychotria to root and shoot in a month especially so P.Viridis, that is amazing. You have to be feeling very good about this experiment congratulations. regards mj. 
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Chicsa on June 10, 2016, 01:47:48 am
yeah man most of mine take months lol
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on June 10, 2016, 01:57:10 am
Trying to get this straight.  So the control is untreated, as I understand.  If haven't gotten this mixed up, you're saying both the treated and untreated viridis sprouted within 1 month?   ???
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on June 10, 2016, 02:09:28 am
Well the experiment proved inconclusive as the control sprouted just as quick as the treated leaves. In the future I will have to try again with a larger matrix of pgh varying in ppm.

I'll most likely reapply the same pgh to the respective leaf sprouts to see if long term they affect growth. Ga3 has affected flowering with my iboga at 50ppm so perhaps I won't have to wait 4 years to get flowers :D.

The rotted ga3 alba leaf did root however the bottom half in the soil was all brown. It's doubtful that the ga3 caused this but ga3 is known to inhibit root growth so might have had some effect?

Bach did mention that #6 was the quickest to root for him and others mentioned similar results although I can't recall what the time frame was for sprouts.

I'll post pictures this weekend

Trying to get this straight.  So the control is untreated, as I understand.  If haven't gotten this mixed up, you're saying both the treated and untreated viridis sprouted within 1 month?   ???

Yes the control was untreated. They all got the same soil (pure coir), same water amounts, same fertilizer amounts. The temps have gotten quite hot this past 2 weeks. These leaves are 6 weeks in so a bit over a month.


EDIT:
Perhaps the harvest date had some effect on the quicker sprouts? IDK just tossing out ideas. I guess to resolve this Bach should send me another batch of #6 leaves so I can try to replicate the one month time frame.  ;D .... well 6 weeks idk if that makes it less impressive.

On a side note I think that a 50/50 coir perlite mix would result in quicker sprouts but idk in the past I've had quick sprouts with light soil mixes.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on June 11, 2016, 06:31:08 pm
So here are the photos... The first leaf is the #6 control, the second leaf is Nexus control, the third leaf is the alba control. The #6 1mg Tria had too small a sprout to photograph well. There are a few leaf cuttings that don't seem very far from sprouting.

The control leafs seem to be doing better then treated leafs but might still be too early to tell
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: berserkerofoden on June 27, 2016, 03:07:03 am
how do you keep algae off your soil? I got a P. Virdis cutting thats rooted but the soil is turning green with algae
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Hummingbird on July 06, 2016, 07:18:06 pm
I'm also starting Psychotria cutting in Coir, so I have a question- how wet should the coir be?
Like soaking wet, or simply wet?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on July 06, 2016, 09:23:59 pm
I soaked my coir till runoff and kept it soaking wet without issues (2 or 3 out of 15 leaves rotted but think it was do to GA3) Make sure you container has drainage holes.

If you are starting stem cuttings I would wet the coir then press to remove excess water.


To keep algae at bay you should provide adequate air circulation and if it still persists adding H2O2 will also help. You can just remove the top layer of soil if it gets too bad.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Roze on July 11, 2016, 10:40:11 am
Im happy with the "water- cup " method, great results in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on July 12, 2016, 02:30:50 am
Im happy with the "water- cup " method, great results in a couple of weeks.

(thanks bach!  8) )
I use the water rooting method but don't get results like that in 2 weeks.  The attached photo shows roots I got in 4 weeks but I think you've done better.

I just soak them in a small jar of water kept in a humidity chamber.  http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=2835.msg24345#msg24345

Does your method require anything else? ???
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: EIRN on July 12, 2016, 02:06:45 pm
Some plants are faster to root (Basil for example). Put a cutting of a plant like Basil togheter with psychotria leaves, and they will root faster.
Fast "rooter" plants have more hormone and release it in the water.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Roze on July 12, 2016, 08:27:08 pm
I just add 3/4 drops of regular rooting hormone/ stimulant  to the water .
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on July 12, 2016, 10:50:54 pm
I've tried rooting hormones on both leaf and stem cuttings and found no difference in root growth. I do not root leaves in water though, so that might make some difference.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on July 12, 2016, 11:05:22 pm
I've tried rooting hormones on both leaf and stem cuttings and found no difference in root growth.

Yeah,  I've tried a rooting harmone pre-soak and found no difference but I've never tried harmones in the rooting water before.  Gonna have to try it now.

I'm also trying the sphagnum in a take-out tray method compared to the water method on another set of leaves.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: berserkerofoden on July 13, 2016, 04:04:38 am
Thanks modern. this water cup method I am guessing is just to drop the cuttinng in water and add light?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: nikshaz on July 14, 2016, 11:56:04 pm
I had some leaves darken. I didn't think an all purpose fertilizer that's 5-5-5 would do this. I've seen fertilizer burns but none like this. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on July 15, 2016, 12:18:34 am
Psychotria leaves need absolutely no fertilizer when rooting. They do fine for me in plain miost spagnum until the new plantlets are six inches tall or so, at which point they get potted up.

As for your leaves cut them back immediately to remove all the black tissue.  Then place them in some inert rooting media. Perlite or vermiculite would probably work. Sphagnum is my medium of choice as you know. Soil could work but then you run the risk of more black rot. It's still a possibility anyway.

I'm speculating here but what I think happened is that you fed the microorganism(s) that cause that tissue necrosis. The leaf really has no means to use fertilizer until the new plant is actively growing. I mean it was green and healthy already right? Psychotrias are not heavy feeders and Pv in particular is a slow grower, so fertilizer at this point was not needed.

She's a great teacher of patience.   ;D

If your leaves fail altogether you know you can get more.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: nikshaz on July 15, 2016, 12:23:45 am
Thanks, Ill cutback, restart
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on July 15, 2016, 03:23:19 am
This will likely be my last update on the hormone tray as I think I may repot the most to a 1 L container.
It seems that all the controls have more sprouts and quicker growth BUT most treated leaves have swollen root sprout which later have a plantlet later on. (forgot to take a close up photo)


The one small issue I have is black 'rot' on the top growth on some sprouts. Not a big issue because it stops at the last nodes and sprouts again. I reason but think it is due to 100% humidity and lots of heat.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: plantlight on July 15, 2016, 03:58:42 am
This will likely be my last update on the hormone tray as I think I may repot the most to a 1 L container.
It seems that all the controls have more sprouts and quicker growth BUT most treated leaves have swollen root sprout which later have a plantlet later on.
It's good to have these results documented.

I've done some experimenting in the past and have not noticed a difference and yeah, I thought I remembered a control in one of my experiments growing noticeably faster than the the treated leaves.  Nothing as extensive and thorough as your experiment though.  It needed to be done. 8)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on July 23, 2016, 10:38:28 pm
Here are the swollen root nodes that occurred only on the treated leaves although may be common with others. I have repotted my leaves to larger containers so next update will be in a few months after they have grown a few inches.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: EIRN on July 24, 2016, 03:28:54 am
I use to root my pv leaves in water. Put a fast rooting plant in the same glass helps chacruna roots.
I saw it with Coleus...coleus and chacruna on the same glass of water.

The seedling attached on the leaf cutting can grow 5 - 10 cm only in water, just replace the water time to time.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: modern on July 28, 2016, 12:35:52 am
Here is a sprout on Psychotria colorata leaves I planted on June 27 so exactly 30 days to sprout. These were quicker then my larger viridis leaves and there is zero chance of the leaf being exposed to pgh like with the viridi; the viridis took 6 weeks to sprout. The conditions were the same 100% humidity with bright shade and temps in the 90s everyday. The quicker sprout may be due to not using pure coir but a coir/perlite mix.

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on July 28, 2016, 03:33:18 am
I think colorata is just quicker than viridis because I've had similar success with leaf cuts, and I didn't treat them any differently than I do viridis.

I was fortunate enough to get a stem cutting and it rooted inside three weeks. (!)  I got it on Jun 1 and it's already outside with the main collection.

Very vigourous rooter.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Frog Pajamas on July 28, 2016, 12:25:27 pm
Ohh, I want a leaf of the colorata!! (hint, hint Bach  :P )
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: The Seedist on September 04, 2016, 08:12:26 pm
My posts here http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=4136.0 and there http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=4136.15
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: madmonkeyz on November 29, 2016, 06:04:12 am
cat poops in my potted viridis. would the poop kill my viridis?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: happyconcacti on December 08, 2016, 04:33:30 am
From the owner of www.misplant.net (http://www.misplant.net) :

Quote
I received 2 pv plants ina trade 7-8 maybe 9 yrs ago, they were maybe 16" or so.  Wintered over in my gh the first yr, they got ate up with bugs.  screw that, i put em outside in morning sun where they recovered.  then i put one in the ground near a conc. block wall, the other i left in its pot, maybe 5 gallons by this time.  Both plants within a few feet of each other, both getting morning sun.  Winter came, the one in the ground froze to death, & the one in the pot shed all its leaves and froze the tips......it recovered come springtime and eventually grew a little bit bigger than when it froze back.  That winter it froze again, shed all its leaves & recovered in the summer/late fall.

Two yrs ago I saw my first flowers, gawd damn they sure are tiny.  The plant flowered in very late fall, then froze again over the winter, this time freezing very hard  Last year after recovering it produced more flowers, but they occurred too late in the season to develop into fruits.  Then winter hit and it froze again.....are you beginning to see the bigger  picture here??

This year the recovery was much quicker and I saw flowers, lots of them, a whole lot earlier than before....weeks, then months passed & by golly hot damn theres berries forming!!  Well now we're heading into winter and more than likely another hard freeze.  I'm hoping i can harvest a bulk of the berries before it freezes or maybe figure out some kind of temporary cover.

Early this spring I moved the plant to a near fully shaded area, it now gets just a few hrs of morning sun & its been in a much larger pot now for 4-5 yrs.  I try to water it every 3-4 days but obviously it could stand a lot more humidity than it gets in  my garden.

Right beside it are smaller shipibo plants and a couple of E. novo plants.  Usually the novo's freeze back and sometimes recover, sometimes not.

Winters here usually means a few nights below freezing; where you see frost on the roofs or a thin lawer of ice on a small shallow body of water.  I've seen ice on a pool of water on a roof 2 miles from the ocean.

heres some eye candy to suck on....   notice the happy caapi vine? :)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Toxicodendron on December 18, 2016, 07:35:20 am
Some interesting growing notes on the different cultivars. I recently had a drop in temps (mid 30's ?) that I hadn't anticipated in my winter grow chamber. Most of my strains of chacruna took a hit & lost their leaves.

(1st Picture) The 'Nexus' all did fine, losing no leaves & maintaining vigor. Back to growing along.

(2nd Picture) The 'Shipibo' did just as well as the 'Nexus' babies. The #6 babies stand in stark contrast with complete loss of leaves.

Thought it was worth sharing...

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: madmonkeyz on February 09, 2017, 01:54:49 am
Ants farming aphids on my beautiful viridis! I sprayed water to get rid the ants and aphids but i know it is only temporary. They will be back. What should I do? Would those ants and aphids kill my lovely viridis? I am worried.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: EIRN on February 09, 2017, 12:36:09 pm
Ants farming aphids on my beautiful viridis! I sprayed water to get rid the ants and aphids but i know it is only temporary. They will be back. What should I do? Would those ants and aphids kill my lovely viridis? I am worried.

In my viridis there are aphids all the time...I control it with neem oil when there are to many. They don't kill the plant.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: madmonkeyz on February 11, 2017, 01:39:30 pm
Ants farming aphids on my beautiful viridis! I sprayed water to get rid the ants and aphids but i know it is only temporary. They will be back. What should I do? Would those ants and aphids kill my lovely viridis? I am worried.

In my viridis there are aphids all the time...I control it with neem oil when there are to many. They don't kill the plant.

do you mean the neem oil would not kill the viridis or the aphids would not kill the viridis?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: ONandONandON on February 11, 2017, 05:24:10 pm
i think ERINsaying neem oil will remove bugs and not hurt the plant, but if ants are eating the aphids,
i'd say let them eat until the aphids are all gone.. then you could re-pot the plant to remove the ants.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on February 11, 2017, 09:00:48 pm
Ants don't eat aphids, they tend them like cows, using the sweet excretions from the aphids as food.

Not a situation you really want on your plants. They won't kill a Pv but I suppose a severe infestion could weaken a plant.  Once grown out to size Pv are generally pretty sturdy and shake off most infestations.

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Cashback on March 19, 2017, 12:17:58 am
This is the way I made my propagation...
 in photo (2) the leaf cut in three is the one from photo (1) an viridis, the one that is complete is an Nexus.
I think I can take several clones from a single leaf from one I already take 4 clones just need water and an air pump.
In the last photo is the one from photo (1)
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: madmonkeyz on August 22, 2017, 06:55:44 pm
About 2 years old psychotria viridis. About to flower. Could it be male p.viridis? Or female? My p.viridis grows together with b.caapi as you can see in the second picture. Anyway, thank you Frog Pajamas for the leaves. Really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on September 04, 2017, 03:13:48 am
Wow, only 2 years old? Excellent work! Viridis typically don't flower until they are about four years old.

Looks like that specimen is a male type. And it looks like it IS flowering, not 'about to flower'. The flowers are really tiny.

Frog PJs got her leaves from me, and it's good to see you having success with the species.  ;D
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: madmonkeyz on September 05, 2017, 04:53:36 am
They grow really fast provided with adequate sunshine and water. How to know if it is female and male p.viridis? It would be great if you could provide pics for female and male comparison. Thank you.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Inyan on September 06, 2017, 08:06:04 pm
I'm going to be lazy here as I've seen the first few pictures on how these leaves were propagated. Bending the leaf in half vertically and planting the vertical fold in the ground just a little bit in my experience results in many more babies.... as each vein small or large will often produce a baby that way. If someone else has already posted that information my apologies for double posting. Again, laziness on my part.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: nikshaz on March 07, 2018, 09:31:27 pm
Here’s something that I’ve done to encourage more root development. Hopefully later promote branching.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Fontoking61777 on December 08, 2018, 09:16:06 pm
anyway someone could help me out with some leaf cuttings been looking for a while now

Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: XDX on December 11, 2018, 10:39:54 pm
Hey sorry to hijack, just a quick question

i have a P. viridis plant i purchased about a year ago, it was about a 30-40cm tall when i got it, with ooh 5 or so branches/growth tips.

when i received the plant, the leaves seemed especially crinkly & curled inward. i thought it would hopefully grow out of it in happy new conditions.
well, i don't think it has grown at all. i think it tried to put out a new set of leaves at each tip, but they came out all crinkly as well, and dropped once they had expanded to only a cm or two in size. no new growth.


any advice? ill try to post some pics soon, but does this sound more of a nutrient deficiency issue, or like a humidity issue, or something else?
if we can get this thing growing a little bit faster, ill have some fresh healthy leaves that i can share for propagating!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on December 15, 2018, 04:12:30 am
Humidity most likely and temperature secondarily.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: madmonkeyz on January 09, 2019, 05:13:32 pm
how many generation of p.viridis is possibly could propagated through leaf cutting? eg. first leaf cutting grown into big tree, and then leaf taken from that tree, and planted and grown into another tree and so on and on. would it lose vigour and die after certain generation? or a new tree from a leaf cutting is genetically different from the mother tree?
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: madmonkeyz on April 12, 2019, 01:52:49 am
anomaly leaves!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: csnap on December 17, 2020, 04:14:38 am
Hey everyone. I've got an established 3 yr old Alba and was wondering if I would be better off propagating through leaf cuttings or stem cuttings.
I've heard rumors that stem cuttings root/grow faster but I don't know the technique. I've done leaf cuttings before and they take foreverrr
Let me know thanks!

Also is there any way to help it get to flower? It's probably close to old enough
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Bach on December 17, 2020, 04:59:06 am
2 node stem cuttings seem to be the way to go. Some light but moist mix and a humidity dome should be all you need.

Alba will flower at three years so if it's happy you'll see some action soon. 
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: csnap on December 21, 2020, 02:59:08 am
Thanks for the advice! I've got about a dozen stem cuttings in the rooting process now. Will update when I see progress
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: woolmer on February 09, 2021, 05:30:31 pm
I present here the layman's propagation of P. Alba. Simply place all your leaves/cuttings in a ziploc bag with a bit of water and forget about it for a month. When you check again there will be several roots on your leaves and they should be reading for planting.

Is this the most effective propagation method? Probably not. Is it the easiest when propagating larger amounts? Seems so to me. Of 12 cuttings all but one have gotten substantial roots.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Greenmystery on April 16, 2022, 11:49:39 am
Whole p.viridis stems (15-20cm) with about 3-4 leaves cut in half and placed into rainwater outside.
All showing tremendous root growth in less than a month.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: SallysMintGarden on April 17, 2022, 06:12:06 am
Looking good GM!
Ive got some large Psychotrias atm, I will probably have a go at this myself this week coming up. The DW06 I have grow so fast so could get a good few cuttings out of them I reckon
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Greenmystery on May 13, 2022, 05:47:48 pm
@sally
Gave the takeaway Tek a whirl and I must say I'm impressed.Put my leaves (cut in half-tops and bottom) in a coir/verm mix on the 26/2 and yesterday took a look and they bursting with roots!! Decided to put into small pots today before they get a little difficult to separate - I noticed slightly more root growth the tops that I cracked the mid rib a couple times slightly above the cut
Great Tek for leaf propagation
Highly recommend
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: SallysMintGarden on May 13, 2022, 10:10:46 pm
They look fantastic! Doing really well for how long you've been propagating them.
Funnily enough I was sorting out my Psychotria leaves today too!
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Mangrove on May 16, 2022, 06:34:29 pm
Propagation of Psychotrias via stem cuttings interests me greatly!! Does anyone know and/or have experience with propagating other psychotrias via stem cutting? I want to try this out with my P. Nexus.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: Greenmystery on May 16, 2022, 07:04:28 pm
@mangrove
Im pretty it'll work the same with Nexus - it is a psychotria hybrid so can't see why not.
Title: Re: Psychotria viridis propagation
Post by: SallysMintGarden on May 16, 2022, 07:22:37 pm
Ive done it with Psychotria 'Nexus' before. Just left in a cup of water inside a bag for humidity. The cutting actually started flowering whilst it was in there and rooting at the same time!

Ive currently got some Psychotria 'DW06' stem cuttings in water, ive not got these in a bag this time as I ran out, however they seem to be doing fine like this and its not seeming necessary for them to be in one.

Ive tried stem cuttings of Psychotria kirkii, probably 3 or 4 with each of these methods - water rooting like above, rooting in soil and rooting in Sphagnum moss. I only had 1 cutting which rooted and that was in soil. Very tricky to root in my experience.