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Total Members Voted: 18

[PermieGing]

This is to help identify the preferred way we should go about teaching this.

I hope to help encourage and teach food foresting and permaculture here, as i now know theres quite an interest! I hope others will take up this noble task as well!

 

[MadPlanter]

So your basically talking about building sustainable edible landscape gardens and what not right? Also maybe just planting edible and medicinal plants in areas that will likely remain undeveloped for some time as a means of ensuring future annual harvests of seasonal species if the need arises?

[PermieGing]

Umm yes im talking about that, but its alot more also.

Everything sustainable is permaculture imo


But a food forest is like a designed ecosystem, based off of nature, and designed for biodiversity and a human benefit.
But theres many definitions that are better

[TBM]

One quick question: How large would could of these food forests be? I'd assume there'd be a minimum size limit to assure a big enough biodiversity with the proper spacing between plants.

[PermieGing]

Hmm, a food forest has such an ambiguous definition, i would say theres no minimum size.

However, a minimum of a certain size is beneficial, yet not required.

[MadPlanter]

Ideas like these are what will shape our species future. Individually all humans should maintain a small edible biodiversity in their own yards. Instead of paying out the ass for low quality nutrient deficient GMO irradiated and gassed franken veggies and fruit we should all have a little of this or that in our yards to share in exchange for our neighbors this and thats so to speak. Not f'd with chemically and picked at the right time. Nutrient full foods... Your on to something great if you get people to start doing it. At the end of the day most people are sheeple and not inclined to care as long as society keeps on a rolling. There must be a way to stop the age old rule that pieces of crap continue to teach new pieces of crap and the smell only gets larger. From within our own families and communities a grass roots idea to just stop the perpetuation of shit so the air can clear a bit. Then there may be a large enough group of well wiped asses to start change.

2 Likes PermieGing and fairdinkumseeds like this.

[Sunshine]

GMO doesn't necessarily mean bad. There are some plants which contain animal genes and shit like that, in those cases its bad. Eating the product of those plants can cause a plethora of problems.

But as for plants like certain grains which are genetically modified with the genes of a more hardier grain and stuff like that, those are perfectly fine. Genetic modification of this kind is safe and helps to feed millions of people.

The problem arises when people start trying to play god and insert genes from other kingdoms which may seem to do good by increasing hardiness, yield, etc...but in actuality can cause IBS, fuck up your gut, and a ton of other bad shit.

Also, using natural plant growth regulators to delay ripening, and to increase yield and increase shelf live isn't so bad either. After all, the plants produce these naturally and we have been eating these plant hormones for thousands of years. Its always good to wash fruit you buy at the store anyways. Of course, fruits ripened this way won't taste as good and contain as much nutrients as vine ripened veggies and fruits.

Overall I agree with you though. It would be best if people grew what they needed and didn't buy the lower quality shit from the store.

Just thought that needed to be said. Not hating on you bro. 

1 Like fairdinkumseeds likes this.

[PermieGing]

Any GMO plant that would be grown outside of a highly secure place is bad.

The gmos pollinate non gmos of the same species....
In 100 years, that whole species will have the possible irreversible genetic modification.

I do realize this is a bit exaggerated, but you get the point. Not to mention GMOs are patented, and if the genes spread to other crops, say on someones heirloom corn field, the patent holders can come in and sue for everything the farmer has got........

I could see gmo being plausible in controlled conditions for very specific results, say growing in a triple locked down lab and the plants produce like a cancer cure...


Also, gmos are no good for out health, theyve been grown in and are dependent on a puddle of roundup. So, just think what irreversible damage theyre doing to the rest of the ecosystem such as the gmos pollinators, then what eats the pollinators etc etc

1 Like fairdinkumseeds likes this.

[New Wisdom]

Any of the genetically modified foods are dangerous in my opinion. Recently there was a viral gene found in a bunch of the GMO crops. 

HERE

There is something seriously wrong with all of this. GMO's are poisening the people and monsanto and the other companies responsible have such a stranglehold on the government that they are impervious to lawsuites. (Monstanto Protection ACT) It's not about feeding the people. It's about mass profits.

2 Likes PermieGing and fairdinkumseeds like this.

[Sunshine]

Researchers went to Asia with a genetically modified rice strain that they had inserted more drought resistant gene in from another less nutritious, less tasty strain of rice and they gave it to the farmers. They didn't make any money off it, they just gave it to them. Now when there are droughts there are a lot less people dying of starvation. Millions of lives are saved. Since the gene was taken from the same species of rice eating it will not cause the previous mentioned negative health effects. They are essentially doing a fast version of selective breeding in a short amount of time.

I'll try to find the source where I heard this. It was a you tube video on GMO foods.

Any of the genetically modified foods are dangerous in my opinion.

Care to explain why you think that?

EDIT- I can't find the video, but I will say that after watching it my views on GMO crops changed after watching it.

[New Wisdom]

There's a reason why they are banned in many other countries. There's also a reason why there are hardly ANY studies on it and the ones that prove that they have detrimental health effects are pushed into a dark corner by monstanto. They have been proven in many different ways to affect the body. Look into it and you'll see, and i'm not talking about some youtube video. Google scholar.

The only reason they are allowed is because there is too much money to be made from it. Monsanto is prettymuch above the law at this point so there's not much we can do except NOT eat them. And I think even that one link that i posted is enough to turn people away. I guess not though.

1 Like fairdinkumseeds likes this.

[fairdinkumseeds]

Forgive my huge wall of text but I just had to chuck in my 2 cents.


In Australia all GMO crops are grown in "secure facilities with a cleared safety area around the crops to prevent cross pollination".

The safety area is 3 f#@*ing meters!
Seriously, not kilometers, meters.

Needless to say but now there is GMO canola all the way up and down the main highway, and it was detected in WA, (and Japan and parts of EU) on the other side of the country from the NSW crop it originated from.
Australia is a bloody big country folks, so that's a long way.
I cant even send bloody guava seeds to WA due to quarantine laws and it being a "high risk material", but untested or evaluated in any way (as it was from the first planting,) GMO canola had made it there and was/is growing along side the highway, near non GMO canola crops.
"Limited cross-contamination and pollination has occurred, but it has been isolated and is being monitored by the relevant authorities"

I don't know about your government but I don't really trust mine to be responsible...


Regardless, there is just no need for this stuff, as there are ALREADY much hardier crops available of just about everything.

That rice for example.
The folks were growing the weaker stuff as the price was higher at market.
It was white, it had a uniform grain size, and a loose hulk making bulk processing easier.
That's economic and market forces of the big wholesalers, not any real logistic issue.
The hardier varieties grow fine, are disease resistant, nutritious, and can feed a nation with ease.
BUT, they will not get top $ in the market, and will be classed lower in the grading system.

That is the cause of the starvation issues world-wide.
There is only a market for "A grade" products, even in the third world.

"A grade" whatever is worth $80-100 a tonne
"B grade" whatever is worth $10-25 a tonne
"C grade " whatever is worth $1-5 a tonne

You can't honestly tell me that there is anything wrong with B or C grade, (and 50 years ago we had D, E, and F as well) but the big suppliers just will not buy it, and a lot of the time the cost involved with transporting, marketing and selling it, outweighs the profit of growing it.

There is the reason for mass starvation, and GMO rubbish doesn't fix that problem, it only enhances it, by increasing the standardization of food crops, and destroying the market of traditional varieties.

And even more scary is the fact that the surrounding "weed crops" become resistant to standard "safe" chemical herbicides, or the crappy GMO crops escape and become weeds themselves.

Although the origin of the Genes used in GMO crops is pretty scary stuff, lets put that aside for a minute.
The facts are this "solution" doesn't actually fix the "problem".
If the problem is starvation, just utilize B and C grade foods more, and adjust the pricing of them to match there real economic and nutritional value.
Problem solved.

If your after a way to control large populations of people and create international instability,  in turn creating massive profits for BIGAGRA, then GMO is the best way to go.

You can't really fault the business model or the marketing department of Monasanto or alike.

1/3 of the population doesn't understand the risks involved, not physical or medical, just the huge economic risks I am talking about.
1/3 of the population doesn't  care, and assumes someone else will sort out any issues. As long as they get their 100% visually perfect food, nice and cheap, then all is well.
1/3 can see the problem, but doesn't have a way to solve the problem by themselves, and fighting something that is 2/3 stronger than you is pretty hard going, so they eventually give up.

With a business model like theirs, then market domination is unfortunately inevitable....
GMO everything is gonna happen, and the only way to minimize the effect of a GMO dominated diet, is to grow stuff like amaranth instead of wheat and corn.

That way when your old style heirloom corn or wheat or whatever you have been growing for generations, is crossed up with the wild weed GMO varieties or your neighbours crop, or the new diseases that come from the increased reliance on those few select crops come and wipe out your older stable varieties, you will still be able to harvest a feed from your amaranth.

Forget about cancer and all those other distractions, put out by BIGAGRA to keep the agitators in the community occupied.

The $ alone should be enough of a reason to put a stop to the GMO industry.
Its not economically sensible to rely on GMO anything.

Amaranth is just an example, but you get the idea.


 

1 Like Sunshine likes this.

[PermieGing]

Researchers went to Asia with a genetically modified rice strain that they had inserted more drought resistant gene in from another less nutritious, less tasty strain of rice and they gave it to the farmers. They didn't make any money off it, they just gave it to them. Now when there are droughts there are a lot less people dying of starvation. Millions of lives are saved. Since the gene was taken from the same species of rice eating it will not cause the previous mentioned negative health effects. They are essentially doing a fast version of selective breeding in a short amount of time.

I'll try to find the source where I heard this. It was a you tube video on GMO foods.

Any of the genetically modified foods are dangerous in my opinion.

Care to explain why you think that?

EDIT- I can't find the video, but I will say that after watching it my views on GMO crops changed after watching it.

What about the heirloom varietys of rice that will soon have gmo genes in them??? No stopping that in this situation at this point

1 Like fairdinkumseeds likes this.

[New Wisdom]

Fairdinkum, our government is completely in bed with the company that is making a lot of these GMO seeds. There was even a bill passed here called the "Monsanto Protection Act" that basically grants them immunity to a lot of the laws other companies have to follow. They are impervious to lawsuit. My government fully supports this because i'm guessing monsanto has a TON of lobyists speaking on their behalf in congress and i'm sure they've infiltrated the FDA.

1 Like fairdinkumseeds likes this.

[fairdinkumseeds]

"Fairdinkum, our government is completely in bed with the company that is making a lot of these GMO seeds. There was even a bill passed here called the "Monsanto Protection Act" that basically grants them immunity to a lot of the laws other companies have to follow. They are impervious to lawsuit. My government fully supports this because i'm guessing monsanto has a TON of lobyists speaking on their behalf in congress and i'm sure they've infiltrated the FDA."


Yeah for sure, its the same situation here.
GMO is not allowed in any Aussie foods.
But, its technically not a GMO product if it is processed to remove "all genetic material" like in canola oil for example.
The oil is considered a refined food product of "negligible genetic content", and therefore ITS NOT EVEN LABLED GMO.
Technically its not GMO, even though its from GMO plants

Its in everything, but most folk still assume there is no GMO products in Australia, as the government tells us there isn't and never will be.
Same for imported US processed corn etc.
They discussed labeling but the advisory group said that these GMO products would likely be unfairly boycotted and targeted by the extremist members of society, and as such, "labeling was not only unnecessary, but also a potential risk to our economy".....

Money is the only thing that makes folks think about stuff, so that's the message we should be pushing.

No one cares that the rats and the pigs both got cancer eating that GMO rubbish.
No one cares that they use terminator genes in developing countries to force reliance on the big companies for seed year after year.

But I reckon that explaining that in 10years max, and the data backs me up on this, all these crops will be useless due to disease and overreliance on chemicals is the way to go.

Even better, if we don't eat the shit, they wont have a market for it.

Plenty of food in the bush and in your footpath for that matter.
Just in a 5m square patch of lawn at the caravan park in town I found chickweed, sorrel, purslane, nutgrass, oxalis, dock and wombat berry.
All good for a feed, highly nutritious, sustainable and cheap.
I would say its the same pretty much anywhere.

Just because the system is broken, doesn't mean you should be a contributor to it as well. 

We cant win the war or the fight by direct or even indirect conflict with a more powerful opponent.
That wont even win any of the little battles along the way.
Its a statistical impossibility.

BUT,  we can always just walk the away and do our own thing........
Then "Karma" will sort it all out for us.

1 Like Sunshine likes this.