Print

[gollum]

Hi there,

I am searching for Information regarding the growing of Phalaris Spp. I found different information in different forums but no complete guide. I think there might be one. So please point me to it.

I read that clipping of phalaris might be necessary to prevent some species to die. Also I read that it might grow faster and broader when cut back from time to time.
So when should i cut? Every time it is almost flowering?

How much do i cut of? Keeping like 5 cm leaf?

When planted from clones. Is it a good idea to prune it down after planting it? I heard the old shoots will die anyways and new one will grow.

[MeanGreen]

By far the best phalaris guide you can find: https://erowid.org/plants/phalaris/phalaris_faq.shtml

I have separated rhizomes from my clones (AQ-1, Big Medicine, Yugo Red, Turkey Red, Picta) several times and I haven't found the shoots die or that you need to trim them. For maximum growth I'd say probably don't clip them, for other purposes follow the erowid guide.

One thing I learned is do not cut the stems, only the leaves, especially on brachystachys since it doesn't make new rhizomes. The shoots you cut will die, they don't seem to be able to branch out and develop a new growth point.

1 Like MorningDew likes this.

[gollum]

Thanks MeanGreen,

there are some nice infos in there. With Maximum growth I meant more sprouting from the Rhizomes so that the patches of grass grow wider and build up more spouts to the sides.

The info with the stems is something I asked myself as well. When you read in gardening forums about the treatment of Phalaris arundinacea, they often cut down the whole plant to the floor.

So brachystachys is not building new rhizomes and is better grown by seeds? So it would be a good idea to collect the seeds of brachystachys! Is this right?

[MeanGreen]

Yes, P.  brachystachys can only be grown from seed and doesn't spread rhizomes. They grow bigger and thicker than the other species though, and is probably the best one to grow if all you have access to is seeds and not tested clones.
I haven't had any success rooting stem cuttings of brachy, so I don't think there's a good way of conserving special genetics and I guess that's why nobody has introduced a P. brachy named clone to the community.

[flip]

There's a AQ-1 report from the 1990's (Italian researcher/ author)
that detailed the importance of the before unrecognized P Aquatica as a tryptamine source

Growth perimeters were discussed and how the phytochemical profile changed with it's growth phase and response to cutting in it's growth phases.

I'm trying to find a copy online... sadly it's not available in my search.

[chronic]

You mean this PDF?

[flip]

That's the report.

I got the hardcopy in my archives when it was first published in 94 - 2 years later I attended a 96 conference (J Ott's SF Entheobotany conference)
where there was a presentation given by Girogio (one of the authors) in place of A. Hoffman breaking his hip and being unable to attend.

This saves me the time of scanning it in.

Good basic info in there.

[gollum]

Thanks for the PDF.

I saw this before but never looked into it deeper. Great infos in there.
Its somehow funny that there is not much new/current information out there. No new studies about those great plants.

Did you guys heard about the fact that seed suppliers try to lower the alkaloid content by breeding to safe sheeps and other animals?
I read that several times on "normal" gardening webpages.

I started some brachystachys from seeds. They needed some time to sprout but now growing slowly. Aprox 5cm so far.
I will try to cut down some of them before flowering to see if they maybe live on then.
I also will try to put some stems in water to see if they get new roots.

[flip]

Oh there's been some research and developments - but in my opinion that's been moving in the wrong direction
due to the influence of money and commerce.

Regarding the botanicals, from where I stand, we reached a plateau and real science has been stymied.
There's simply too much of a lowend spotlight on this field of interest and the people projecting our collective "branding" are not the best people to manage our PR.


People like Hamilton Morris and his VICE series isn't helping people improve our image at all imo.

Legit researchers to not want their names attached to any projects that might be of interest (career killer).

That's what I've seen happening.


_____


The attempt to selectively breed a low tryptamine source of animal fodder is just something that's going to happen and it's nothing new.

Interestingly one the flip side, one of the fist mentions of P. Aquatica in any seed catalog (along with the AQ-1 report), made specific mention/request to people to not use this seed by "eco-warriors" spreading it around public lands to kill ranchers grazing cattle and sheep.  Too bad that if you get rid of the cattle the plant will also kill off the native animals as well.... so it couldn't be used.

[gollum]

Which research are you talking about?

It would be awesome to have something like a umbrella organization which is maybe powered by kickstarter or patreon which can do more community oriented research.

The last season of Hamiltons Pharmacopeia is a bit better then the first. But I think he is still unrespectfull and egoistic.

----

In regards of the selectively breeding a low tryptamine source phalaris I am asking myself if there are still seeds of phalaris out there which result in alkaloid containing plants.

Is there a known source of Arundinacea which has a high amount of alkaloids? I know it is a bit like gambling with Arundinacea from seeds.

By the way. I didnt find much infos about herders who talk about problem with alkaloid containig grass. Not many herdsman seem to know or care about this. Anyway it seems like from side of google...
There is this initial study which started it all, but after that not much...

[flip]

Which research are you talking about?

The development into Research Chems for profit.

The last season of Hamiltons Pharmacopeia is a bit better then the first. But I think he is still unrespectfull and egoistic.

He's a twirp.

While he tries to don a white labcoat and present himself as a "researcher" he's really just a user with money and nothing else to do and it's become his personal identity.  I don't think he has any legs to stand on as a person outside of trying to superficially trying to impress people that don't have access to certain things or haven't devoted real time and energy into learning about these matters.

Watching him walk around with a pair of high end calipers to measure peyote in the field or misuse different words to describe what he's seeing (variegation) in someone's greenhouse got under my skin. 

____

I'm pretty sure that there are AQ-1 growing grass in Italy where they were first sourced from.
It wouldn't be too difficult for people to independently develop some variety of high indole grass.

As for it being a problem:  perhaps it helps to realize that in the first seed booklets,  had that information included into it's description so that the alert reader would be aware of the grass without having to spell it out (simpleton style) for people.   Keeping idiots unaware by having these sorts of hurdles has proven to be a very good way to help preserve our interests over time.   Having smart(er) people with gardens doesn't raise red flags and we should work to keep it that way.   

Something that Hamilton's vice series is entirely oblivious too (or more likely hostile too)  as they want mass appeal and to work as a counter to "respectable researchers" efforts at public acceptance.  Who better to tarnish any respectability in the publics mind than to have that person be our defacto PR Frontman in the continuing War on Drugs?

Regardless, Phalaris staggers is known and can be a problem in areas where it grows wild and ruminants feed upon it in abundance.
I'm sure most ranchers don't have a problem with it nowdays due to active removal over the generations and concentrated industrial ranching techniques in the west that rely upon processed feed vs wild grazing. 

[Bach]

I attended a 96 conference (J Ott's SF Entheobotany conference)
where there was a presentation given by Girogio (one of the authors) in place of A. Hoffman breaking his hip and being unable to attend.

Hey flip, I was there too and I was electrified. Great conference with lots of seminal information. One of the highlights of my life actually...
I remember being disappointed that Hofmann couldn't make it but didn't recall him breaking his hip. Thanks for the reminder. Makes me wonder how much else I forgot.

I have the full videotape set of the conference. Would like to get it uploaded to Youtube someday. Unfortunately they recorded the sound through the mic on the camera instead of a patch directly into the presenter's mics and the sound quality was pretty bad as I recall.  Have often wondered if a sound engineer could improve the quality at all.

Might have to view them again now that I think of it. Anybody have a working VHS machine? 

1 Like OfCows likes this.

[gollum]

I would love to see that video tape!