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[MadPlanter]

This is it...the ominous Tuesday morning...highly doubt anything will happen but its interesting to see.

I'm happy with all the comments. Everyone here is a down to earth person it seems with realistic points of view despite a diversity of views.

1 Like Ian Morris likes this.

[Frog Pajamas]

Do you have more of a problem with running up debt for social service programs than tax breaks, Liberty? Tax breaks account for more debt than all discretionary spending combined.

[LIBERTYNY]

 Well let me first say this,  i did not intend to offend anyone.   And after rereading my post im not sure why anyone would take offense to it ?  Im normally a very polite person, and I would say sorry, but im not sure what for.

 Im a libertarian,
 so I take offense to all social service programs period.
 As far as taxes are concerned,  I believe better than 95% of taxes is nothing but theft.  I dont know anyone that works for a living that is not massively overtaxed including the socalled 1% supper rich.
 So i cant get mad at anyone for self defense of their money, Personally I consider cheating on your taxes a patriotic act.   

 “Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”     

[Ian Morris]

Ill second everything LIBERTYNY said above.  However, unlike my libertarian amigos, I do not think there is a single situation where the collective (and by collective I mean public) use of force would be justified. 

To FPs point; treating a rebate or an incentive as a net loss is like when my wife tells me how much money she saved getting deals @ Belks. 

-Ian

1 Like LIBERTYNY likes this.

[MadPlanter]

To FPs point; treating a rebate or an incentive as a net loss is like when my wife tells me how much money she saved getting deals @ Belks. 

Would you please explain further?

Otherwise I must say I agree with liberty for the most part. I'm against govt programs and taxes simultaneously. I personally believe if we were good hearted creatures we could exist quite well without govt. We are a long ways from that because of our current state but with proper educative means in time we could accomplish it no problem. If everyone were to take a serious stance tomorrow to want to discover true spirituality it could be done in no time. Obviously though this is a pipe dream as it won't happen but I can still say I want it too!

1 Like LIBERTYNY likes this.

[Skink]

I agree with everything you said madplanter.
 

I dont know anyone that works for a living that is not massively overtaxed including the socalled 1% supper rich

This is actually not true. I you know any rich 1%ers that complain about their taxes kindly slap them.

http://www.americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-taxing-wealthy-americans/

[Ian Morris]

Skink that website is slap full of half truths and outright spin.  It is thinly veiled alt-left progressive taxation.  While I do agree that many of these loophole should be closed, my solution wouldn't be to increase the progressive effect of taxes.  Nor would I disguise this message as fair, because that would mean I didn't understand the meaning of the word, or worse applied some nebulous definition (which I would argue is the root cause of the loopholes to begin with).

I am all for tax fairness but what that website advocates is not fair in any understanding of the word.  Even by their own numbers the 1% pay an effective rate of 24.7% with the national average of 19.3%.  So please tell me what you consider fair?

1 Like LIBERTYNY likes this.

[Mangrove]

If you wanna see some 1/2 truths, click on this link:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php

I'm a believer; are you?

1 Like Ian Morris likes this.

[Manigordo]

This is an interesting topic, but imho there is much more to it than ongoing developments in the US.
Yes, teotwawki will happen and it has already started to happen. It will not be one single catastrophic event (at least not as long as Trump won't win), but rather a chain of events triggered by climate change and it's dire consequences, like conflicts about water.  The situation will gradually worsen, but humans are smart and most of us will escape disaster for many years to come. Yet, eventually it will get us.
We are just too many, everybody wants to live in luxury and we have already f*cked it up.

Thoughts from a non US guy.

2 Likes Frog Pajamas and MadPlanter like this.

[plantlight]

However, unlike my libertarian amigos, I do not think there is a single situation where the collective (and by collective I mean public) use of force would be justified.

Ian,
I like the concept and can envision a collective that operates without the initiation of force.  However, it seems to me that defense is a use of force that would be justified.  Further, until such time that sufficient technology has been developed to provide impenetrable shielding from attack, a reactive use of force is perhaps the only was to stop an attack.  Perhaps I misunderstand. 

Please elaborate.

[Mangrove]

However, unlike my libertarian amigos, I do not think there is a single situation where the collective (and by collective I mean public) use of force would be justified.

Ian,
I like the concept and can envision a collective that operates without the initiation of force.  However, it seems to me that defense is a use of force that would be justified.  Further, until such time that sufficient technology has been developed to provide impenetrable shielding from attack, a reactive use of force is perhaps the only was to stop an attack.  Perhaps I misunderstand. 

Please elaborate.

There are these things called forests and national parks and Wyoming/Montana.

Go really deep into those areas. Build a log cabin. Forage and feed and make fires

Then when things are going good collect a harem.

[nikshaz]

I'm in Wyoming, we have land here. All of you guys/girls are welcome if it did come to it. We will grow for our own sustainability. I'm serious.

If anything occurred, the people here would stand together. IMO, this state is really self sufficient. All resources are here. If Wyoming really wanted to, we could build a wall around the state and live for hundreds of years. We would have some people who would be pirates of the land but this state has a lot of gun owners. Like everyone here owns a gun. I'm not joking

People want to continue their kin, they'll do it by any means possible.

I want to edit this in, Im mainly speaking for Wyoming, small town(s), no large cities. It's a different story in other places.

1 Like Ian Morris likes this.

[Mangrove]

In Wyoming, we have land here. All of you guys are welcome if it did come to it. We will grow for our own sustainability. I'm serious.

If anything occurred, the people here would stand together. IMO, this state is really self sufficient. All resources are here. If Wyoming really wanted to, we could build a wall around the state and live for hundreds of years. We would have some people who would be pirates of the land but this state has a lot of gun owners. Like everyone here owns a gun. I'm not joking

People want to continue their kin, they'll do it by any means possible.

I want to edit this in, Im mainly speaking for Wyoming, small town(s), no large cities. It's a different story in other places.

Everyone I know who was raised in Wyoming hated living in Wyoming (sans you).

However, this is duely noted; I know where you live, so expect a friendly simplicifolian knock on your door after the nukes drop and/or the north pole melts into silly puddy.

[Mangrove]

Irrespective of how things go down, i'm pretty sure my main Mensch, Freud, knows what's gonna happen regardless as to how we design our new society: http://www.stephenhicks.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/FreudS-CIVILIZATION-AND-ITS-DISCONTENTS-text-final.pdf


Then there comes along a man by the name of Orwell and his Animal Farm...

[nikshaz]

Everyone I know who was raised in Wyoming hated living in Wyoming (sans you).

Everyone hates where they grow up, not speaking for all. They want to explore the world and some think they got the world by the nuts, Really family is all you really need.