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[happyconcacti]

Hi All,

I'm looking for some advice here. I put a bunch of leaves in one tub (see this post for a pic: http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=260.msg4992#msg4992) and now the leaves have massive amounts of roots.

I'm worried that as baby plants start popping up that the whole thing is going to become a huge mess of baby plants that are difficult to separate. Is this a valid concern?

Should I repot the leaves into individual containers? or just leave them alone for a couple more months?


Thank ya kindly,
hcc

[Bach]

I'd just leave them be for a while. If the roots do get tangled they can be trimmed when you separate the plants. Roots will regenerate very quickly, unlike the green aerial portion.

1 Like happyconcacti likes this.

[Frog Pajamas]

I separated a bunch of plantlets from the mother leaves a month or so ago, and in the process completely mauled the mother leaves. I decided to throw them in some more soil anyways, and now there's a few new plantlets! If you decide to separate before the leaf dies, it's probably worth a shot even if you mangle the leaf substantially. There are even a few little bits of leaf that have new shoots.

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[Bach]

The problem with separating the babies from the leaf is that as long as the leaf is green it is photosynthesizing and thus feeding the baby. It's like it has its own relatively huge solar panel.

My experience has been that the baby's growth slows way down, akin to starting from seed, if I separate them.  But as you have discovered, almost any leaf fragment will throw more babies.

1 Like gator likes this.

[Frog Pajamas]

The problem with separating the babies from the leaf is that as long as the leaf is green is is photosynthesizing and thus feeding the baby. It's like it has its own relatively huge solar panel.

Seconded. I had a few leaves that had plantlets growing up on the leaf way above the soil and only separated once they got so heavy that they were causing the mother leaf to fall over sideways and pull on the roots. The plantlets that had pretty developed roots and several sets of good sized leaves are kicking along pretty well, but any really small ones have slowed a ton. I planned on leaving the small ones alone, but I made a mess of the separation  .

How old do mother plants need to be to use the leaves to propagate new plants, ballpark? Is it more a matter of age specifically, or leaf size as an indicator?

[TBM]

I've had plantlets come from P. viridis leaves that were close to 7" long (mature leaves), and I also had 2 P. alba leaves which weren't even 4" long that had begun to sprout (so likely not fully mature leaves). I do not know how large (or old) the plants were when the leaves were harvested, although it seems to me that size of the leaf isn't much of a factor; I'd be more worried about how the mother plant will react once you start pulling leaves off, especially if you don't wait long enough where it might not recover from losing too many perfectly good leaves.

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[Bach]

Age of the mother plant really doesn't matter. As long as the leaves are reasonably well-developed they will root, given the proper conditions. I've started leaf clones from mothers that were only a year or two old from seed.

Also, while I don't recommend it, mine survived being completely defoliated when they were about a foot tall. I did that in preparation for a move across the country so I wouldn't have to water them in the back of the moving van. They survived just fine, and even though they are true tropicals they've proven to be amazingly resilient for me.

Good luck to all who are growing this plant!

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[fairdinkumseeds]

Yeah I'd have to second Bach on that.
My poor plants have been raped ever since I got them.
As soon as a new leaf forms I pull it off to propagate or post and they are still hanging in there.
They have a stem a central growing tip and 2 leaves max at any time.
Feel a bit harsh but its for the good of the whole species......

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[gator]

I have a lot of healthy Alba plants, so I prefer stem cuttings over leaf cuttings. A stem cutting only takes 3 weeks to take off. With leaf propagation, I believe that the more the bottom of the leaf is in contact w/ the soil, the better! That's why I plant mine more horizontally than vertically. The roots grow vertically, so by doing that, I ensure the multiple sprouts' roots don't become entangled. I encourage multiple sprouts by notching the center vein of the leaf(everyone knows this, but...). I've noticed by making a small hole in the leaf at the notch, it allows the shoots to grow up and thru the leaf as opposed to breaking thru it or going around it. With Alba I have used full leaves that were only 1" long, also cut a 6" leaf into 4 sections and everything sprouted. I would not use sections or small leaves for rooting Viridis. The larger the leaf and better condition it's in, the better the chances are for surviving and staying green until root growth. I think Alba roots better than Viridis because of the growth rate. A leaf from an Alba plant may only have to survive half as long as a leaf from a Viridis before producing.  I've only had 2 Viridis leaves (w/ roots) and they died. I can't kill an Alba leaf without frying it. I have green sprouting Alba leaves that've been outside in the dirt for over a year! They've been thru freezes and under water for days. I think when a leaf gets rooted, it'll stay green and survive for a very long time. If your careful when removing shoots from the leaf, and don't hack it up too much, I think one could get 100 plants from a single leaf. One can get a LOT of plants going quick w/ leaf propagation. Enough to share w/ everyone and still keep your own collection growing.
One day I hope to take all of my notes and make a Psychotria propagation guide.

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[Bach]

The problem with alba is that all the clones that I'm aware of are phytochemically uninteresting. Even the UDV sourced ones, which is where I got mine so I know.

Also in certain areas alba can spread aggressively and I think likely to become an invasive exotic. I constantly have to pull out volunteers that sprout all over my back yard, or better yet clip all the flowers before they set seed. Wish I had that problem with viridis...

[EIRN]

Best tecnique to produce chacruna seedling starting of a leaf to me is put the leaf in water, in a glasswater. Cover ¾ of the leaf with water, change the water every week.
A tip is to put a cutting of plant that roots easily in the same glasswater to provide rooting hormone.
I made a visual guide to help. Text was write in Portuguese, but is possible to understand only looking the pics.

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[nahuatochtl]

Hey brothers!

So i re read all the info in the forum and i think that theres still some info missing, and this is how to proceed once the plantlets are well stablished.

I had success with my alba leafs and now have alba mini plants, i guess the procedure will be the same as viridis so im asking on this thread instead of opening a new one. So what to do now?

[TBM]

Simply transplant into a larger pot of the same soil mix you started with (to prevent transplant shock) and continue to treat them the same as you have been, your P. alba plantlets are looking nice Whatever method you used for your P. alba leaves to get this far will work equally as well for your P. viridis leaves, but remember that viridis grows slower than alba.

[nahuatochtl]

Fine TBM, so far i had those ones inside a fish tank with a cfl on top, with high humidity inside, but they no longer fit in there, so in the mean time im going to put them in another kind of humidity dome (the botle they are already in) and transplant. when will this be a good time for they to try outdoor aclimatization? when will be  a good idea to put them under normal humidity and how to do it?

THanks for the help, i hope soon i find some viridis leaves in my future

[Frog Pajamas]

They look large enough to acclimatize to lower humidity.  If you are using a bottle as a humidity dome, poke a couple holes in it every few days to slowly bring the humidity down. I think you'll want to get them stable with humidity and then acclimate outdoors, but someone else can chime in if you can do it at the same time. 

They look really nice!

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