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[DansMaTete]

Hello plants raisers !



I did throw a handfull of syrian rue seeds in ground and surprise, lots of them sprout.

I plant them in differents soils :➊  70/30 sand/loam, ➋  40/60 sand/loam and ➌ the original soil : poor, compact and not well drained (mostly clay and sand, i know it's bad).
So, after ~1 month lots of them died (they don't like to be transplanted) but the survivors are :

➊  Tallest plants , i had to cut the main bud to have some branch growing, green but not very dark. Seems to be the best but they don't look perfectly healthy.

➋  Middle size, light green (almost yellow), lots of death.  There is a strange one,it's the biggest and the lower leaves became reddish. Does someone know what's happenning ?

➌  Smallest, dark green and tip of leaves is curly. Sure, it' not the best soil for them but they look healthy


I use tap water (fill up some containers and live them under the sun at least 24h to destroy chlorine). It's from reverse osmosis and pH is 8. I didn't find any data about pH for the ground and i'm wondering if this could be my problem.

I probably over water them cause at the begining, i let the soil dry and i almost  killed them so now i'm a bit paranoid.


I would appreciate any tip to make their life better.


Thanks

[MadPlanter]

Seems to me they like a mix of half sand and half rich low peat potting soil with added perlite. They grow all spindly but look good most of the time. Respond well to once monthly fish emulsion application. They like shoot up new branches from larger branches that have sprawled outward.

Hope any of that helps! Peace

[BubbleCat]

Im by far no expert with these, in my experience you'll Never feel like you found the sweet spot they like, but shouldnt give up on them too fast, some behave stubborn for months, appear dead and suddenly show signs of life again. Same seems to apply for the seeds, you might get very late germination you havent expected. So in a wholw they like to suprise. Pictures would really give readers a better idea here, since your description sounds lile there is issues.

hope we get too see some of them before its too late

[Auxin]

Young seedlings and transplants do need water.
They are deep rooted plants that can drink from deep in the subsoil but roots wont go through completely dry soil in order to get deep.
If the weather is warm and the air isnt humid just let the soil begin to dry between waterings until they get bigger.
Transplants need even more water. This year I dug up and tore apart a clump of second year plants and planted them out into a nice orderly row of a dozen plants. I kept them well and deeply watered (in hot weather and dry air) until they quit trying to wilt and not one died.

They die back and go dormant in the fall, I like to put a circle of larger stones around each plant at that time so people, cats, etc. are less likely to step on them. Particularly useful for little first year plants.

[DansMaTete]

Thanks for your imputs, it's helpfull.


MadPlanter : definitly the mix 70/30 sand/loam is better than the 40/60. And those in the bad soil (➌) grow slowier but  they survive well. You're right about branches shooting up from the main one.

BubbleCat : yes, sprouts still pop out from time to time. Good to know that if they seem dead (dry) there is still some hope. No picture cause no camera => i borrowed one from a friend today and i prolly have a bad karma because it doesn't work anymore

Auxin : i'm aware about watering transplants but they seem to have fragil and sensitive roots, at least when they're young.  What happen when there is no fall (tropical), do they still grow, i guess yes but do they bloom ?


The one with reddish leaves i definitly diing, i guess it's to much water (lots of rain lately).

Anyone knows what trigger blooming ? Day light duration, temperature, age of the plant ?

[DansMaTete]

After more than 6 months : it seems my plants are struggling to survive. I have them in 4 differents spots (2 original pots and 2 differents in the ground) and all of them have the same symptoms : they grow well and then start to wither (turn reddish first and dry after), i think they're gonna die and they come back to life with new groth (some of them died).
I have no clue of what is happening. I'm on a caribbean island and the weather is hot and dry for few months now so, it should be nice for them. The soil is quite poor but aren't they supposed to be addapted for it ? I'm close to a salted pond but they like salted desert and those in pots behave in the same way. My only guess is the lack of coolness in the night or a problem with bacteria/fungus in soil.

To tell the truth i'm lost    And that's why i'm here asking for help.

Pictures (bad quality, sorry about that)
In pots :


In the ground

The pot has no bottom, it's to protect them from crabs (they had eaten them previouly)

[Greench]

Can you give some details about the grow? temperature, hygrometry, watering amount and frequency, fertilizer...

found this:

Prefers a light well-drained but moisture retentive soil and an open position in full sun[200]. Prefers a dry soil[187] and succeeds in poor soils[238]. Although this species comes from dry desert areas, it responds well to cultivation so long as the soil is very well drained[238]. It can tolerate temperatures down to about -20°c if the soil is dry[187].

Mine are doing well so far but they are not outside, and they are still small.

[DansMaTete]

Ola Greench,

As i said, i'm in the caribbean, so :
- temperature are (roughly) between 20°C (night) and 30°C (day)
- it can rain a lot but the last months it's been pretty dry and i let the soil dry before to water them ( from below for those in pots, every ~2 days)
- fertilizer : i think (not sure to remember well) i gave them a small amount of nitrogen based fertilizer one time to see if it change something but no difference noticed
- soil in pot is very well drained (sand/loam 60/40), in ground it's not the same (clay in soil) but there's not much difference in growth.

Oh ! I re-read posts above and i see what MadPlanter wrote "Respond well to once monthly fish emulsion application". I have to try that (i bougth some long time ago and i didn't used it^^).


Just for information (not sure if it's out of rules, tell me, i can delete the link):Click

[Turk0lok0]

I'm trying to grow my P.h., i used 50% topsoil+50%sand river in a vase of ceramic/clay, i believe this type of vase improves maintenance of the humidity, for the first time i see them growing to the first leaves after cotiledones...i'm confident for this time, but, they have only 2 months of life...

[Greench]

Hi there,

Are your plants getting any better?
Mine are doing okay so far. They really don't like water much.
If you have no control on water supply (rain), you should remove that saucer, and also repot with a mix containing rocks, clay pellets, perlite and such draining materials.
Keeping them safe and dry under the table could help too.

[happyconcacti]

I'm not sure this helps, but the area that they've become invasive in the USA has granite soil that drains quickly. It's high desert with little rain fall except for Monsoons in the late summer. The soil is fairly alkaline.

The USDA has a nice write-up on P. harmala:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detailfull/r3/forest-grasslandhealth/invasivespecies/?cid=stelprd3824016&width=full

Hcc

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[DansMaTete]

No, it's not better. It seems they go slowly downhill.

To test i gave some fish emulsion to half of them (1 in pot and 1 ground) but i didn't notice any difference in their look.

I prolly gonna try what you are suggesting (re-pot in different soil) with one in pot and see what's happenning.

It's really frustrating cause the weather where i live is supposed to be not very different from their original habitat (not as cold in the night though) and it should be an easy growing plant.

Anyway, tx for informations guyz

[Auxin]

It looks like they want to go dormant and they are big for plants that have never gone dormant.
This species is used to freezing winters. When nights cool the foliage dies off, sending the nutrients to the roots, and the plant goes dormant until days warm and it re-sprouts from the crown. Drought can also trigger this as a survival mechanism.
These are drought tolerant, that rarely means drought loving. I would tolerate a broken arm, but I sure wouldnt love it.
Because your in a place with no freezing winters you might need to exploit summer drought dormancy as a means to keep them healthy. If they die down to the surface water them extremely sparingly from the bottom for a couple months and then when it looks like the days will be cooler for a week or two give them a good watering. It may trigger their spring time growth spurt, with flowering following a few months later.

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[DansMaTete]

After lots of investigation, i think i found what was my problem : in 2 words, pH & pH

Soil pH : before to find proper sand i used some from sea made of coral and shell (picked up somewhere very far from the beach)  and even if Peganum is very tolerant about alkalin soil the soil pH was 9+ and they don't like it much
Water pH : my tap water has a pH of 8,5 and it's even worst than the high soil pH

Now i use some citric acid to lower water pH to 6 and i changed one of my plant's soil.  It's a bit early to be really sure but it seems to be much better (at least the green is nicer and it's shooting lots of new groth from stem). It's less spectacular but even those i left in the very alkalin soil react well.

I didn't realised how water pH was soooo important. It's also very beneficial for my others plants like my mimosa hostilis and time will tell me if my cacti enjoy it as well.

I had this revelation by consulting this document about cacti.