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[MadPlanter]

Idk why I'm posting this here. Feel like maybe someone might find it entertaining. I read all kinds of wierdo stuff while researching whims on random things. Seems like the article is pretty well backed up other than I didn't read the materials the author uses as reference in person. Assuming the references are sound maybe there's substance to these materials...pun intended. Do I research too many crazy things or is this just another stop in the rabbit hole...more like a rabbit's abyss??? Long read but vastly interesting to other wierdo researchers.

http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/santa.html

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[LIBERTYNY]

 The thing you must remember about the bible is that its words can be twisted to push about any agenda someone has.
  To read it casually without actually studying it as a whole is sure to leave you with the wrong impression. 

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[Mangrove]

This one comes from BC:


Meanwhile, in Mein Kampf...




The causus belli for the season is as thus:



Yes, yes you are crazy as f*ck, MP but aren't we all fucked in the head (and, on special occasions in other bodily orifices, as well)? We all know these holidays are a horrid, cold-hearted time of year ripe for making risque self-destructive financial squandering just to make the offspring and spouses and relations thereof appear to be more friendly towards accepting your existence in peace as you proceed to wallow in squalor over the over-expenditure of your already over-strained financial resources. Enjoy family and friends; holiday-season-induced gift giving is best left to those who feel an insatiable desire to compensate for the lack of time and energy they should have spent on those they know and love.

Fuck the holidays; fuck the financial spend-it-all stigma they employ to make you outspend yourself into a lifetime of indentured servitude to your creditors; enjoy your family and yourself; Magic means more than matter's might.
-Mangrove

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[BubbleCat]

No knowledge is useless, therefore no research is useless.
Most people research too little and all people know too little. On the other hand I envy those who don't know and dont desire to know, might make for easy happy life.

Scriptures: They are complex, too complex to be free of contradiction. Especially the religions descending from Abraham have the issues LIBERTYNY points out. Most christians for example would agree that the new testament, as the younger scripture, is to overrule the old testament in case of contradictions. Otherwise christian would go on commiting genocides and burning down cities as proposed in deuteronomy. Everyone should be free to believe what they want or disagree with any believes, a wise man tho will consider that the scriptures were written by humans and independently of the true nature and origin of a scripture, they could have made alterations (many of which are proven) or write down what they want freely. So if the wise man has a religious belief he should stick to the values in his scripture that are commonly refered to as "good" and ditch the rest. No killing and burning infidels but loving each other and forgiving to prevent spirals of violence, being thoughtful and tolerant. And so on.

Many beliefs different worshippers have, do not come from their scripture, even if they believe so (kind of funny that to me it always appears those who claim to be believers didnt actually read it and *surprisingly* follow the exact same confession as their family does ... but it was a free unbiased choice ! ) in fact many beliefs stem from pagan religions and have survived christianisation. So some will say "ots written in the bible" or "thats a christian/jewish/muslim belief" when actually a thing is not even mentioned once in the corresponding scripture.





(Yeap thats as official and legit as a card only gets.)
http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/2272150

Santa Claus is made up by the statists to indoctrinate children of early age and make them approve of mass surveillance. Its manufacturing consent, nothing else.

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[MadPlanter]

You guys are awesome! Exactly why I guess I wanted to put this here. There's so much craziness going on around here and its great to see others perspectives. Most of my religious belief stems from experiences in which it felt as though revelations were happening inside my minds eye...wonder what does that...? Anyways gonna take a look at the easter bunny now lol...what I'm curious...another Jesus holiday under attack it would seem gonna see what ridiculous stuff I can find on that.

[MadPlanter]

Out of curiosity may I ask if any of you are deliberately against Christmas because of notions such as the article I presented or for any other reasons meaning your expressly pagan or whatever by belief? Would love to see why you would be for or against Christmas whether related to the article or not. Does Santa just suck to you because you think its a lame theme for the holiday or do you believe its not actually Jesus' bday as in the belief of most scholars of Christ saying its impossible Jesus was born at that time of year? Do any of you know about gnosticism(be aware there are at least two pretty opposing versions)? Would any of you view paganism as truely for God or for satan? I'm tied between all I know about paganism and how or how not it relates to any belief in a true God, satan pushed aside. Seems like the pagans had a good understanding of nature and the universal happenings so that could be just as much for God as they play the pagans out to be satanists. Personally the onslaughts of the Catholic church trying to literally eliminate the pagans makes me feel(since its my belief they are in fact more for satan than for the true God) they were trying to actually crush any real answers in the search for a truth about God. Personally I believe in a God but its more like the native American version of the Great Spirit or even the Jedi's version of the force lol if that doesn't throw all my credibility out the window...what y'all think? Tell me to shut up if it has no interest in any of you or is not appropriate for here at this forum and the questions will stop right here.

MP

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[BubbleCat]

Im not deliberately against christmas, in fact every day should be christmas. Of course not every day of the year can be a historical figures birthday. One might now say I am missing the point, but many accept christmas as a celebration, especially a celebration of love forgiveness and maybe even a celebration for the sake of celebrating.
I'm not against celebrating, love, forgiveness or the likes, neither do I mean that by everyday being christmas that the days would only be christmas.
I believe that, wether we accept the deeper reason underlying a celebration or not, as long as we dont disrespect the underlying reason and celebrate along, no matter which cultural background we have, we show respect for each other and each others beliefs.
All the christmas fuss is really unnerving. Christmas is two, maybe three days, thats it. No need to stretch it over two weeks.

The easter bunny reminds me that it is striking, that for all theese celebrations, even those who celebrate the underlying reason or historical event, make up completely unrelated figures to "upgrade" the celebration, neither the santa claus nor the bunny has any obvious connection to jesus and in both cases the focus shifted in favour od those apparently random figures. I must add that traditional we do not have santa claus here, but its more and more present lately. Years ago there was no "santa claus coming" the people simply said "jesus christ came today".

Here it appears that more and more people confuse st. Nikolaus with santa claus, st. Nikolaus has a completely different day and story and is traditionally depicted as what he was: a Bishop.

  St. Nikolaus (chocolate)
English wiki entry seems a bit short sadly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas

"Nicholas thus became the model for Santa Claus, whose modern name comes from the Dutch Sinterklaas, itself from a series of elisions and corruptions of the transliteration of "Saint Nikolaos"" - it is confusing, there is too many accounts regarding different sources of origin, I expect the truth is somewhat of a smelting pot for many origins.

"Made to feel the way that every child should..."

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[TBM]

What a controversy! Where to begin? I've celebrated Christmas every year and will again this year.

There's uncertainty over when Christmas was initially celebrated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Choice_of_December_25_date

There was once a period of time in early American history in which Christmas was actually banned in what is now present day Massachusetts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_in_Puritan_New_England

I'll finish off with this lovely recording from NPR from 2010: http://www.npr.org/2010/12/24/132260025/did-shrooms-send-santa-and-his-reindeer-flying

I think Christmas decorations before Thanksgiving are too early. There are people who are not Christians that celebrate Christmas. Believe what you want, there are numerous holidays on or near the winter solstice. I usually say 'happy holidays' unless I know for sure the person I'm talking to celebrates Christmas.

[BubbleCat]

Help me with my understanding here: Is it correct that most christians in the US are anglicans ?

Mangrove: Is it just as bad in judaism, christians have catholics protestants anglicans orthodox latin jadda jadda, are the jewish segregating just as much ?

[Mangrove]

Short form: Hell no; Christianity has schismed nearly as many times as the human genome has; Judaism's three main denominations (Conservative, Orthodox and Reform) have more-or-less broken off from each other with the rise of liberal ideas in the west such as feminism (e.g. female rabbis are only permitted under very reformist congregations), yet still adhere to the same holy books--their main difference lying in their interpretation of and the extent to which they apply those texts & laws to their own livelihoods. I will explain further when my place is 20% more Klein.

A devout (& very well-versed) theologian/baptist friend of mine will make a reply of his own sometime tomorrow or around then; he may be able to shed more light on this issue from a Christian perspective.