Share The Seeds
Gardening Area => Advanced Cultivation Techniques => Topic started by: New Wisdom on October 30, 2013, 10:51:12 PM
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I wanted to share with you all these amazing techniques I found. These teqniques will allow you to self fertilize a self-sterile cactus and also possibly cross two plants that aren't even compatible (gymnocalycium x lophophora, ect...) This is not my original work. I am just copying/pasting this information for you all to read.
Evil Genius from Shaman-australis forum: Producing Seeds with Self-Sterile Cacti - How to do it (http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=30961)
"Alright guys, just want to share tech that can be used to fertilize the flower of a cactus that usually needs pollen from another one to develope seed:
1. Get yourself some Cement from the DIY Store. Very fine pulver. The finer the better. But the typical Commercial grade works fine as well.
2. Get yourself a small brush and apply some of the cement dust on the Stigma of the flower on the plant that you want to produce seeds with. Also try to blow a little bit of the dust inside the flower.
3. Cement works as some kind of irritator what makes the flower create some Anti-Bodies that enable her to accept her own pollen.
4. Then wait for half an hour and brush some of the own pollen on the flower and repeat this numerous times.
Now heres some additional info: Usually, there is only very few seed to be harvested but it works and the seeds are usually viable. The reason why this works is that cement consists of highly basic calciumsillicates that tremendeously raise the ph of the flower. Because there also are aminoclusters on a pollencorn that are also responsible for raising the ph, the cement has the very same effect. Because of his highly basic potential, cement is even way more effective. Basic niveau reduces the ability of the flower to abort the pollen so it accepts it.
IT ALSO ENABLES YOU TO CROSS CACTI THAT ARE INCOMPATIBLE WITH EACH OTHER! Like LOPHOPHORA x GYMNOCALYCIUM, MAMMILLARIA, TURBINICARPUS ETC. Its not guaranteed that it works all the time and you have to experiment a lot but i know that it worked in some cases.
Another Advantage is that genetecially, defects will be passed down to the offspring so this would be very interesting for pollen from Cristates and other mutants.
But in some cases, plants can be weak or not healthy and may need additional generations of breeding in other cacti. The produced Offspring thats created with this tech is not to be seen as clones as there is a recombination of DNA going on, what enables them to cross them in with the motherplant as well.
Alright guys, this is no bullshit, its working so use this info to your Advantage and create some fucking freaks. ;)
EDIT: I think this Post about encluding electricity is pretty much related so i wanted to merge it with this one but it would be too messy so i just add a link to the Topic. Its called
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so i'm assuming you could use lime or any other carbonate or highly basic powder
Exactly. Everything that has the ability to influence the ph should also be able to influence the pollen acceptance as well. Some may work better than others so please dont hesitate to publish your results. Success Rates may be shockingly low or high. Its all about the ph, the moisture and some luck. Crossing difficult cacti is a numbers game."
Evil Genius from Shaman-australis Forum: Intergeneric Breeding with Electricity (http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=30745)
"Hi Guys, just wanted to let you know that i dug out a technique that may increase the chances of intergeneric breeding greatly. The technique was successfully used to force self-sterile cacti to accept their own pollen by causing some kind of a short-circuit on the stigma. It should actually also work to make cacti accept the pollen of other, sometimes very very unrelated generas. Im not sure if that comes across but this is a very groundbreaking thing and if it really works, it can be used to create some crazy new hybrids. So please try it out and let me know. Will definately do the same.
Technique goes like this: Go get a 9V Battery. Braze or wrap a small copper wire on both poles. Put one wire in the ground and cover the second wire with the pollen you want to use as father. Then put the wire with the pollen on the stigma of the flower. Thats it. If you had some electricity going, its possible there will be some freaky seeds later. Technique is extremely experimential but i do know that it definately worked to create seed in case of self sterile cacti and im pretty positive it should at least higher the chances of success. Btw, dont think you´ll get an electric stroke from a small battery like this but if your finger tingles a little bit and shit, you do this on your own risk. ;) bye Eg"
I think that these discoveries will cause a breakthrough of amazing hybrids in the botany/horticulture fields. I want to thank Evil Genius for sharing these methods and also for all the amazing work he's doing in the cacti field.
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wow very cool I wonder if this works with plants other than cacti
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I believe that it actually can. I'm not sure if you're a member over at the coroborae, but the thread has some speculation talk about whether it would or not.
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I wonder if this would work with animals.
Edit- the electric technique I mean
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Dont kid sunshine. You know you where thinking about putting cement on an elephants lady parts then getting a pig to come in and make potbelly elephants. ;D
For real though this is some very interesting stuff especially if it works. I wonder how close plants have to be related for this to work. Could a lopho bridgesii possibly be created or would they not be closely enough related?
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Somebody *really* needs to try this with Salvia divinorum.
This plant could get around a lot better if seeds were available.
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In the original thread they discuss it's use with salvia. And it's all trial and error. You could try crossing a loph with a trich but it will probably not work. A loph will most likely only cross with small globular cactus.
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Somebody *really* needs to try this with Salvia divinorum.
This plant could get around a lot better if seeds were available.
or make a unique crossbreed - then it would be legal to ship to and from any state because you wouldn't technically be trading S. Divinorum one would be trading a sub species :)
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I've followed this at the corroboree for a while.
What I never found was evidence to suggest that such induced selfings actually were selfings and not induction of apomixes.
Apomicts are clones in seed form, many plants including cacti can make these, particularly with a trigger. For instance Harissia jusbertii wont self pollinate but if pollinated with Trichocereus pachanoi they will make seed and the plants grown from the seed will be clones of the H. jusbertii.
I suspect thats what EG's cement tek may be inducing.
If it is apomixes then the speculation that it could be used in inter-species/genera breeding is unfounded, sadly.
I hope I'm wrong, cause it'd be cool.
I tried Calcium hydroxide on five Gymnocalycium baldianum flowers and got nothing ???
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Dang! I never saw any real evidence for it either, but come spring i will be trying out this tech and see if I can cross an ariocarpus with a loph.
Thanks for the input Auxin.
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Dont kid sunshine. You know you where thinking about putting cement on an elephants lady parts then getting a pig to come in and make potbelly elephants. ;D
LMFAO!!! No no...I was just wondering if an electric current applied to a egg from one animal would make it possible for a sperm from another animal to fertilize it. Lol
I find this all very interesting. I think I have some cement powder lying around somewhere in the shed. Once my salvia starts to flower I'll give it a shot.
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I highly doubt that it would work with animals. Lol.
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and whys that?
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Well first of all the electricity/high PH would probably just kill the egg/sperm. And second, animals don't hybridize like plants can. I mean within same species there's usually variation, but I don't think there are any animals that are completely different species that can have offspring together. Definitely not as often as plants are able to. It would think it takes genetic engineering rather than a 9volt battery and some wire.
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I don't think there are any animals that are completely different species that can have offspring together.
These are different species that have been crossed;
Tiger + Lion = Liger
Horse + Donkey = Mule/Hinny
Grey Wolf + Coyote = Red Wolf
Did you mean genera? Because in that case....
There is also a sheep/goat hybrid and those are two different genera entirely.
You are correct though. Hybridization is a lot more prevalent in the plant kingdom. I would love to see a kingdom cross. How cool would it be to have a pet plant that runs around and eats mice like a cat or something. Lol
It would think it takes genetic engineering rather than a 9volt battery and some wire.
LMFAO!!! I think it would take slightly more sophisticated equipment than a 9volt and some wire. hahahahaha
I was thinking more along the lines of a sperm and an egg in a pitri dish being treated with a couple micro-volts in a lab or something. Not in a bucket in a dirty basement with some 5 year old shocking the hell out of it with a 9 volt. hahah
I'm not sure what the mechanism of action is or exactly how a sperm penetrates an egg. I think it might be chemical. Then again, living cells produce miniscule amounts of electricity and that may play a part in it. Even if that's not the case, I think its possible that a little bit of electricity may stress the egg out just enough to get it to accept a separate species sperm. Sheep/Goats are 6 chromosomes apart and they don't even need any coaxing to fertilize. Dolphins are only 2 away from humans. I think its highly probable that a hybrid could be made, even without coaxing. To get to my point, I think there are a lot more plant hybrids than animal hybrids because;
A. There are approx 5 times as many plant species as there are vertebrates.
B. Plants grow and reproduce faster than animals.
C. Society frowns upon crossing certain animal species/its illegal.
D. There isn't much money to be made crossing animals. Or rather, there is a lot less than for crossing plants.
Check it out. Very interesting stuff.- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_%28biology%29#Interspecific_hybrids
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I still doubt that it would work with animals. Would be interesting to see though. But like I said i'm pretty sure it would take genetic engineering rather than electricity.
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Care to explain why you think that?
The head of each sperm, the acrosome, releases enzymes that begin to break down the outer, jelly-like layer of the egg's membrane, trying to penetrate the egg. Once a single sperm has penetrated, the cell membrane of the egg changes its electrical characteristics. This electrical signal causes small sacs just beneath the membrane (cortical granules) to dump their contents into the space surrounding the egg. The contents swell, pushing the other sperm far away from the egg in a process called cortical reaction. The cortical reaction ensures that only one sperm fertilizes the egg. The other sperm die within 48 hours.
So it seems that electrical charges do play a role in the fertilization process....
I don't think genetic engineering would be nessecary as I stated before and listed the species that have been hybridized without any help. Perhaps it would be more likely to get animal hybrids if the male's sperm hormone that allows it to penetrate the egg was added to the sperm of another animal, along with a few micro volts to get things going. I'm just speculating based off of what I've read though. *shrugs*
Source- http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/human-reproduction10.htm
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Well something like horse sperm is going to be completely different than say human sperm. Say a horse sperm actually gets into a human egg. The process may not even be the same with how they actually form together, and also, even if it did, horse dna and human dna is so incredibly different that the cell probably wont even be able to reproduce. Anyways this tech is mostly about getting self sterile plants to be able to fertilize themselves. There is no evidence thus far about the hybridizing side of it.
So like I said, I HIGHLY doubt it would work with animal. Let alone with plants.
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Yeah, but with 2 animals that are reasonably close together like a deer and human or a human and a dolphin it could quite possibly work. In fact, I'd say it would likely work.
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Yeah, but with 2 animals that are reasonably close together like a deer and human or a human and a dolphin it could quite possibly work. In fact, I'd say it would likely work.
You cannot really call humans and deers, or humans and dolphins, closely related. If there's animals we could perhaps, maybe interbreed with, those are some great apes like chimpanzees and bonobos. Or if we only had Neanderthals.
The genetic material of two animal species has to be very similar for hybridization. Otherwise the molecular processes occurring in fertilization simply will not prosper.
But let's not derail the thread any further, please.
Kind regards,
Mandrake