Share The Seeds
Gardening Area => Edible and Medicinal Mushrooms => Topic started by: DarkPines on January 05, 2019, 09:02:48 PM
-
My first time growing mushrooms in a jar. I had shiitake plugs leftover from my log(pics of that in my grow log), so I didnt want to waste them and decided to grow shiitake in jars. F%$k it. <3
I did the standard method. I will try to lay this out like a tek I guess? maybe it can help some folks out who havnt got the money for better techniques. Warning: My terminology is terrible. Nor am I a writer or amazing at speaking typing etc.. anyway on to the main topic.
Gather your supplies first, if you havnt got em. Jars, brown rice flour, vermiculite, pressure cooker, or big ass pot with a lid, still air container( I did not use one in this), and your medium of spores/cultures for inoculation.
For this I followed a video online.
5 mason jars, with a hole in the lid.
2 cups of vermiculite.
1 cup of brown rice flour.
1 cup of water.
I mixed the verm and the water first to get it moist. Mix nice and evenly for a couple of minutes. Add brown rice flour, and mix again for a couple minutes until verm is nice and evenly coated.
Pack the jars with the mixture and leave like a small amount of space to pack some fresh dry vermiculite on top of that, and then close the lid on top. Cover with foil when done.
This step you can use a pressure cooker if you have one. Im consistently broke for such items, and had to use a pot hence why I chose BRF + verm method. I just layered the bottom of the pot with jar lids, and aluminum foil until I had a nice layer for the jars to sit on top of without being submerged in water. Remember you only want to steam the shit out of these, not boil the jars, not that a little submerging wont hurt. It boils off rather quickly. So yea, dont submerge the jars. Close the lid on the pot and simmer/boil the water for 90 minutes.
Take the jars out and let them cool naturally to room temp before opening.
Get the still air box ready, and everything cleaned and sanitized with whatever you have. Assuming most people have some knowledge of this cleaning aspect. I did not have the money at the time to buy a container for the SAB so I just did the best I could with what I had. No air movement, some candles, and some high hopes.
I opened each jar one by one, and placed in each, 3 wooden plugs of shiitake spores. Some of them even had colonized grains attached to the plugs, very exciting aye. I did not waste time, and was very careful as I did this. I initially did not push the plugs down far enough into the BRF+verm and was questioning whether this was going to work or not, but no worries it found its way. BUT if you do this, try to push it down far enough lol.
To cover my holes, I did not have anything I truly needed so I did alternative I guess? I cut the ends off q-tips with some of the stick attached, and stuffed them into the holes in the lids. I figured some air exchange wouldnt hurt, and the q-tip is dense and packed tightly in the hole to protect from 'some' contamination.
All done at this point. I threw my jars into a small shoe box that fit perfectly, and placed it on my shelf. Its pretty damn humid down here in Ga, so humidity isnt a problem right now lol. Temps stay between 68-80F in here so its not too bad.
My jars have been colonizing for over a week now so they are pretty far along but that is the only good pic I have of this method so far.
Remember I am learning as this goes along, as Ive never done this before. Fruiting will be a new experience and any advice and tips will be appreciate. More pics will be posted as I update with more information!!
Peace.
-
That is awesome darkpines congrats! 8) you probably already read all this but:
Shiitake grow in groups on the decaying wood of deciduous trees, particularly shii, chestnut, oak, maple, beech, sweetgum, poplar, hornbeam, ironwood, mulberry, and chinquapin (Castanopsis spp.).
The Japanese cultivated the mushroom by cutting shii trees with axes and placing the logs by trees that were already growing shiitake or contained shiitake spores. -wiki
https://freshcapmushrooms.com/learn/growing-shiitake-mushrooms/ some info there
so after it colonizes completely, (because the BRF would contam if it doesn't)
you might could spawn that to something like sawdust or woodchips..
maybe you could keep a continuous growing supply of mycelium.
-
That is awesome darkpines congrats! 8) you probably already read all this but:
Shiitake grow in groups on the decaying wood of deciduous trees, particularly shii, chestnut, oak, maple, beech, sweetgum, poplar, hornbeam, ironwood, mulberry, and chinquapin (Castanopsis spp.).
The Japanese cultivated the mushroom by cutting shii trees with axes and placing the logs by trees that were already growing shiitake or contained shiitake spores. -wiki
https://freshcapmushrooms.com/learn/growing-shiitake-mushrooms/ some info there
so after it colonizes completely, (because the BRF would contam if it doesn't)
you might could spawn that to something like sawdust or woodchips..
maybe you could keep a continuous growing supply of mycelium.
Thanks for the links! I def appreciate that!
So, after reading this and thinking, I was pondering the monotub idea after my cakes brown? I can mix up a substrate I guess with some sawdust and things. I dont have a lot to work with, and my jars are completely colonized now, besides one at 75%.
Some of the threads I was reading before though, a few people mention growing in jars and opting out of sawdust because it slowed down mycelium growth I think? Something was wrong with it, anyway. Idk. LOL
Now that you sent me those links, I kind of want to trash the idea of fruiting cakes, and just bulk fruit these somehow? Keep in mind this is my first time. I might stick to my jar idea and just see what happens? I can always start over, or carry on this mycelium I have now. I mean, I only have 5 half pint jars fucking packed full of it now LOL
Any other suggestions maybe?
-
ive never grown shiitake either, though it would be a fun project..
Maybe you could make some more dowels to inoculate more logs?
I'd be interested in some if you ever get enough going to spare :)
Maybe find one of the trees listed, cut off branches, turn into logs.
youtube probably has some info. Here is another link looks good..
https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cornell.edu/dist/d/958/files/2014/03/Shiitake-BMP-3-11-1osfnxs.pdf
i wonder if small branches could be turned into dowels?? idk,
One picture in that pdf looks like they used a small metal pipe
to make dowel size sawdust sections, that what it looks like.
-
ive never grown shiitake either, though it would be a fun project..
Maybe you could make some more dowels to inoculate more logs?
I'd be interested in some if you ever get enough going to spare :)
Maybe find one of the trees listed, cut off branches, turn into logs.
youtube probably has some info. Here is another link looks good..
https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cornell.edu/dist/d/958/files/2014/03/Shiitake-BMP-3-11-1osfnxs.pdf
i wonder if small branches could be turned into dowels?? idk,
One picture in that pdf looks like they used a small metal pipe
to make dowel size sawdust sections, that what it looks like.
Not a bad idea. Id prefer not to cut down any trees around here because the only good ones are live oaks and I want to say those are protected against cutting. There might be some better ones around here but yea unless I can import some logs from elsewhere like I have been, I might find another way to do this. I can get plenty of saw dust and possibly some wood chips too.
Reading paul stamets mycelium running is filling me with SO many ideas.... :o
-
Here are my jars as of today.
https://imgur.com/a/oJvEXWQ
8)
-
heyyy good-looking! ;) ;D
ive never done shiitakes before, so idk the best way to fruit
but pretty sure shiitakes gonna need some wood
i would soak woodchips for 3-5 days
hardwood, hickory or alder chips for bbq smoking are usually easy to find, but dont use fruits like apple or cherry
gotta hydrate the chips
and id use rainwater, if available, but tap water should be fine
id toss a lil gypsum in
after a few days soaking n woodchips mostly sink, boil these for a bit, ~45 mins
strain n let chips steam off & cool overnight
now you have lots of options, idk which is best, for shiitakes, or for you
gotta figure out how you want to get the spawn to colonize wood, without contaminating over time
youll probably want to end with a cake or block of some sort
i think they do well coming off the sides of things, not just the top, which is why cakes/block are good
so i think some sort of large bag method would be best
you could try like xl spawn bags, idk if youre set up for all that.
mix with some grains or bran, PC for a while, dump some spawn in, seal, wait till colonized then cut the bag open, poke some holes in the side,
or just remove the whole block from the bag once colonized, enter fruiting conditions
you could maybe just pasteurize the chips, then load up heavy duty garbage bags with chips & colonized cakes
you can do oyster on straw this way, but oysters move pretty fast on straw and are fairly resistant to contams.
wood is pretty contam resistant as well, but slow to colonize, vile things might catch up
mostly worried about your colonized spawn turning green once exposed
idk how clean fresh garbage bags are, what kind of "clean room" environment you would have to load them in, how vigorous your shiitakes are
so this method could be risky business
i know i have seen large garbage-bag -sized bags fruiting... not sure what kind of bags these are or how to do it in a kitchen,
but thats what i would try to do
you could also try a monotub type setup
they will fruit from the top only, idk how they would like that
you could poke holes in the side.... that might get you some more weight on the side, but then your totes likely ruined for future use
or you could maybe try small bins, and once colonized, pop the whole mat out as block
ive been using jars for years, but i just received my first spawn bags and other new supplies, feels like i just leveled up!
so im about to start some similar projects!
best of luck, keep us posted!
-
heyyy good-looking! ;) ;D
ive never done shiitakes before, so idk the best way to fruit
but pretty sure shiitakes gonna need some wood
i would soak woodchips for 3-5 days
hardwood, hickory or alder chips for bbq smoking are usually easy to find, but dont use fruits like apple or cherry
gotta hydrate the chips
and id use rainwater, if available, but tap water should be fine
id toss a lil gypsum in
after a few days soaking n woodchips mostly sink, boil these for a bit, ~45 mins
strain n let chips steam off & cool overnight
now you have lots of options, idk which is best, for shiitakes, or for you
gotta figure out how you want to get the spawn to colonize wood, without contaminating over time
youll probably want to end with a cake or block of some sort
i think they do well coming off the sides of things, not just the top, which is why cakes/block are good
so i think some sort of large bag method would be best
you could try like xl spawn bags, idk if youre set up for all that.
mix with some grains or bran, PC for a while, dump some spawn in, seal, wait till colonized then cut the bag open, poke some holes in the side,
or just remove the whole block from the bag once colonized, enter fruiting conditions
you could maybe just pasteurize the chips, then load up heavy duty garbage bags with chips & colonized cakes
you can do oyster on straw this way, but oysters move pretty fast on straw and are fairly resistant to contams.
wood is pretty contam resistant as well, but slow to colonize, vile things might catch up
mostly worried about your colonized spawn turning green once exposed
idk how clean fresh garbage bags are, what kind of "clean room" environment you would have to load them in, how vigorous your shiitakes are
so this method could be risky business
i know i have seen large garbage-bag -sized bags fruiting... not sure what kind of bags these are or how to do it in a kitchen,
but thats what i would try to do
you could also try a monotub type setup
they will fruit from the top only, idk how they would like that
you could poke holes in the side.... that might get you some more weight on the side, but then your totes likely ruined for future use
or you could maybe try small bins, and once colonized, pop the whole mat out as block
ive been using jars for years, but i just received my first spawn bags and other new supplies, feels like i just leveled up!
so im about to start some similar projects!
best of luck, keep us posted!
Much appreciated information!
My jars contain inoculated dowels from which the spores grew from in the jar. Each jar contains 3 dowells. I did consider this more afterwards too, and have already been planning on my next shiitake jar grow. I will be doing monotubs in the future for these, and I will be doing some outdoor bulk growing as well.
In fact if anyone has some good information on growing outdoor shiitake with cakes to bulk, I will read it!!
But my original idea came from this thread here https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11897262/fpart/1/vc/1
Very cool stuff!! Thanks again! <3
-
Another update on the jars. They are being cold shocked right now since 1-15-2019. I will leave them in the fridge for at least a week before I fruit!
pics - https://imgur.com/a/GVYjvFn
-
So I am dunking my cakes tonight, in the fridge in water. Right now, I am boiling the water since its shitty tap water, before I insert the cakes for rehydration. Tomorrow we fruit!!!
Bad news. 1 cake has a contam. So Im giving it some fresh air, after I spliced it out of the jar the best I could lol. Shouldnt hurt anything!
Here are some pics of the contam. More pics of dunking later on.
https://imgur.com/a/2ktAxMx
-
So Im fruiting now! Everything is set up! 4-5 inches of perlite. Tons of holes drilled with a 3/16th bit. roughly 2 inches apart per each hole. I mist often and make sure its balanced on humidity. Temps range from 68-82 F.
<3
-
just to clarify, these are BRF cakes, with 3 wood dowel plugs in each?
whoa, just re-read the original post, you are doing this all without a PC, or SAB??
that takes skills!
awesome, this will be cool to see how they do with the limited wood!
just my gut feeling here, but i would try to keep temps under 75
did a quick search, most folks say under 70, but i did see a few say 80
but, looks like everything's going great, so maybe just keep doing what you are doing!
-
just to clarify, these are BRF cakes, with 3 wood dowel plugs in each?
whoa, just re-read the original post, you are doing this all without a PC, or SAB??
that takes skills!
awesome, this will be cool to see how they do with the limited wood!
just my gut feeling here, but i would try to keep temps under 75
did a quick search, most folks say under 70, but i did see a few say 80
but, looks like everything's going great, so maybe just keep doing what you are doing!
XD It takes skill that I have yet to acquire lol. This is my first time growing mushrooms Ever. And yea no PC or SAB at all on this one. I was eager to dive right in and respectively did so.
The temps here have been pretty cool, not getting up to 80 unless middle of the day. Its been at a cool 65-75F or so, so far. It gets a little humid in here, and the fruiting chamber also creates its own humidity so I take the lid off often.
Here are a couple more things to make this interesting.
I was going to birth my cakes, and dunk them right after I cold shocked them. Unfortunately the first two jars I tried did NOT want to come out of the jar XD . I banged on them, hit them on my palm, I tried using a knife to dig it out. Nothing. One of the dowel plugs at the top actually tried falling out, so I said ffck it and gave up the idea of dunking LOL
Once in a while they dry out a little, so I spray the shit out of them. I also sprayed the perlite with warm water real good when I set this up and let the chamber sit in the bathtub draining for a while to cool off in the dark. The cakes like that a lot by the way. They got all fuzzy and shit lol
I will keep you all updated, and hopefully others who have interest in this might try it out for themselves and let me see some results, and/or change/upgrade some steps on this tek for me! I copied mine from https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11897262/fpart/1/vc/1 if youd like to follow the original recipe.
be back with more soon <3 8)
-
Ok here we go. Few days out of the jar now, and we have some very obvious changes going on lol. Some barking. Some other odd formations. Interesting indeed!!
-
Ok, rapid barking. Sorry for not making these easy viewable pics lol. Im in a hurry.
https://imgur.com/a/nVWBIsG
-
That's an interesting idea, using pf tek and just quickly embedding some healthy tissue near in the top layer of vermiculite.
That could be a good way to reproduce use stem butts. Chop off that tough end of your mushrooms, store them in the fridge for a day, make up some PF jars and just quickly slide a piece in there.
Alternatively you could take spore prints from your mushrooms, get some veterinary syringes from the local farm supply store, and make some spore syringes.
Your cakes look colonized and healthy, congrats! I think they usually turn all brown on the outside before they fruit.
Best of luck keep us posted.
I have some Kuehneromyces mutabilis on grain at the moment. It's not one I would eat from the wild since it resembles the deadly poisonous Galerina genus, but eating my own homegrown should be an interesting experience.
-
That's an interesting idea, using pf tek and just quickly embedding some healthy tissue near in the top layer of vermiculite.
That could be a good way to reproduce use stem butts. Chop off that tough end of your mushrooms, store them in the fridge for a day, make up some PF jars and just quickly slide a piece in there.
Alternatively you could take spore prints from your mushrooms, get some veterinary syringes from the local farm supply store, and make some spore syringes.
Your cakes look colonized and healthy, congrats! I think they usually turn all brown on the outside before they fruit.
Best of luck keep us posted.
I have some Kuehneromyces mutabilis on grain at the moment. It's not one I would eat from the wild since it resembles the deadly poisonous Galerina genus, but eating my own homegrown should be an interesting experience.
lol Yea I realized I was a bit impatient with the fruiting, but ah well. They are barking, and going to fruit soon hopefully anyway. All is going according to plan. Hopefully I will see fruits soon.
-
uuuhhh....huh...hhmm...
:o :o :o :o
https://i.imgur.com/BdqlL73.jpg
-
We have primordia!!
8)
-
well SHIITake mushrooms, guess they dont really need the wood then huh?
nice work, congrats!
-
well SHIITake mushrooms, guess they dont really need the wood then huh?
nice work, congrats!
Ah, dont forget! These were inoculated with 3 dowels each jar. So thats the Only wood source in the jar. They seem to love the BRF though. This was really fun, really cheap, and really easy to do. As any other method though, there can be amends, and things can be progressed more efficiently. One day I may continue this and see what else I can do to make this work.
:)
-
Right, i just didnt think those 3 lil dowel pieces would have made much difference,
guess that shows what i know ha
I wonder how these fruits will look, whether itll be a good/standard flush or stunted/dwarfed somehow, small fruits, low yield, etc.
but looks good so far!
if you get a good flush, the next thing id do is clone a fruit or somehow get the culture on agar (you just have it on dowel plugs right? and tossed a few dowel plugs in your PF jars?), repeat without the dowels, and see if it can truly fruit without the wood. if they fruit without wood, thats good news, then folks can do PF tek all day. if they do not fruit, well thats also news, we know that the minimum wood needed is <= 3 dowel pieces per cake, which is seems low.
I wonder how this translate to other *supposedly* wood decomposing fungi...
should also do a comparison with the same clone on a more wood-based substrate, at some point when you have the means.
with a PC, one could easily modify PF cakes by subbing in sawdust or wood shavings for half or all the verm.
maybe you will end up with what APPEARS to be a good yield from your jars here, but would be interesting to actually compare how that clone does on strait wood.
props to you man, I bet you are excited hahaha
-
Right, i just didnt think those 3 lil dowel pieces would have made much difference,
guess that shows what i know ha
I wonder how these fruits will look, whether itll be a good/standard flush or stunted/dwarfed somehow, small fruits, low yield, etc.
but looks good so far!
if you get a good flush, the next thing id do is clone a fruit or somehow get the culture on agar (you just have it on dowel plugs right? and tossed a few dowel plugs in your PF jars?), repeat without the dowels, and see if it can truly fruit without the wood. if they fruit without wood, thats good news, then folks can do PF tek all day. if they do not fruit, well thats also news, we know that the minimum wood needed is <= 3 dowel pieces per cake, which is seems low.
I wonder how this translate to other *supposedly* wood decomposing fungi...
should also do a comparison with the same clone on a more wood-based substrate, at some point when you have the means.
with a PC, one could easily modify PF cakes by subbing in sawdust or wood shavings for half or all the verm.
maybe you will end up with what APPEARS to be a good yield from your jars here, but would be interesting to actually compare how that clone does on strait wood.
props to you man, I bet you are excited hahaha
ah, Ha! Now that has sparked my interest. I love experiments. I might do like, some jars with only mycelium from agar, and then do a few jars with only one dowel in it just to see what happens. The caps are opening slowly, I dont want to spam my own thread with 'time lapse' pictures :P
It should be fully fruited soon, maybe in the morning or tomorrow evening. The other cakes have some more pins opening up on the sides as well. The only cake not doiing anything is the one I didnt dunk, but it looks exactly the same as the others, minus some weight. The cold shock dunk seemed to be the catalyst after barking that made them fruit. Id love to see someone elses proper BRF shiitake experiment so I can compare!
Also since I dont own a PC yet, Ive been messing with this brown rice flour agar substitute. I basicaly just took brown rice flour, mixed it with water and sauted it until it was thick. I added a little pumpkin seed oil to it at the end, titrated in small amounts until desired texture was achieved. I was able to tilt the pan 90* and it would only jiggle without sliding out. I loaded each jar with about one spoon full of the paste, and then steam bathed them with covered lids for 90 minutes before injecting with spores. Over a week later the mycelium is crawling up the walls of the jar now with nice rhyzo strands, and very puffy forms in the middle of the jar.
Ill use this same technique for the dowels probably lol. In fact in my plug spawn bag there are tiny grains covered in mycelium attached to the plugs. Ill just drop one or two into my 'agar' jars and see what happens.
Thanks for the idea m8 :D
-
Had my first harvest!
Was delicious. 8)
-
nice job dude ;)