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Gardening Area => The Eco-Garden => Topic started by: ONandONandON on August 06, 2017, 11:50:06 pm

Title: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on August 06, 2017, 11:50:06 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: Dexter123 on September 25, 2017, 10:37:10 pm


You may need to get a retailers permit from your state in order to sell anything legally.

I like the idea of running a farmers market.... except for when you talk to market masters, it seems like it can be incredibly frustrating dealing with vendors and keeping things organized, so i personally wouldn't try to do both at the same time.

If you really want to get into it, I very much suggest talking to someone who is running a farmers market already, a lot of times it is one person, but then he has volunteers who help out. The one i am thinking of that is a solo show,only has one person doing all of it, is very disorganized and difficult to communicate with.

for online sales, you will need to make sure that the plants you are selling into other states aren't restricted or invasive species.

definitely love the entrepreneurship, Good luck!

Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: Ian Morris on September 26, 2017, 03:51:02 am
From a strictly economic perspective, get in (or better start your own) CSA, its like a book of the month club for veggies and I have seen these really carry the overhead and more for local hobby farms in my area.

-Ian
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on September 27, 2017, 02:55:03 am
 ;D
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on November 03, 2017, 01:30:17 am
a couple days ago when the temps got in the 30'sF.. got the garden moved into newly fixed up greenhouse..
...moving this weekend! yyayy 8)
(https://dl2.pushbulletusercontent.com/fzr6hYTCSBsVGMbOtEzb2lAqWW0r2HIK/IMG_20171102_160713.jpg)
(https://dl2.pushbulletusercontent.com/VosT22Z5vNk0P4TzvfkWw68fXL4CMLw2/IMG_20171102_160817.jpg)
(https://dl2.pushbulletusercontent.com/eqtvXmH5tDD6PSxAo1f9knVweQexu5Nj/IMG_20171102_160922.jpg)
Title: Re:re woodrosegrove, update :)
Post by: ONandONandON on December 01, 2019, 02:18:39 am
many many trees fell last hurricane, we got them mostly cleared up.. starting on new greenhouse soon!
(https://files.shroomery.org/files/19-48/516148903-gh.png)

hoop house about 20 x 50
around sides and in the middle is raised fish pond (maybe 2' x 2')
above middle pond section, is an aeroponic system
( large hanging pvc pipes with water spayed inside them drips back into pond)
fish help fertilize plants, and the spray drip aerates the water for fishes..
raised ponds also provide a 'heat sink effect' helping stabilize temps.
the green lines in the picture are raised grow beds about 1-2' wide.

geothermal tubing 8 feet underground, will keep it cool in summer, and warm in winter..
one question i have is how much tubing i need underground?
i saw a utube video that said the equation is 'square feet divided by 10 = tube length'
so 20 X 50 = 1000 % 10 = 100' 
100 feet seems pretty short to me, but probably ill at least use 200'

also have optional 'double layer bubble' greenhouse, if needed, but we have mild winters here, it might not be needed.
(double layer is way to keep temps from freezing, by wrapping greenhouse airtight twice, then inflating the two layers)
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on December 03, 2019, 09:53:54 pm
? what about high moisture levels from fish ponds causing mold or rot ?
in theory the geothermal drain pipe should collect extra moisture from the air and condense and drain underground.
raised beds tipping over? sounds like a nightmare..
in this design grow-boxes are a 1' tall wood frame boxes with open bottoms, the fish pond is 2' frame sealed bottom.

i guess ive calculated the square feet wrong.. maybe needed to multiply height also: width X length X height  =
20 X 50 X 10 = 10,000 % 10 = 1,000'... dang 1000 feet of 4"drain pipe (price:100'75$) = 750$
but the curve of the dome removes some square footage, so it wouldn't need 1000'... i think more like 600'-800'

Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: BubbleCat on December 04, 2019, 01:35:51 am
Regarding mold / rot / algea ... and your hydro/aeroponic setup in general: How easy is it to balance the system so one neither runs the risk of starving the fish and plants or causing eutrophy to go way over the top ? Am I correct that the system needs dialling in and perhaps continuous adjustment by controlling the number of plants and/or fish ?
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on December 05, 2019, 12:56:15 am
idk it will be learning process for me.. i think it should be pretty easy, or as difficult as one wants to make it.
on side ponds, i plan to cover with boards which help reduce light and algae, also provides a place for pots.

at first it was just a pond around the edge, for heat sink in the wasted space along the sides,
then i figured why not have fish and aeroponics, and fill up some wasted space in the middle.

the main thing for keeping fish is that they have enough oxygen, 
with aeroponics going all day, there should be plenty of oxygen..
i also think plants will get plenty of nutrients, but we shall see :)
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on December 12, 2019, 01:09:05 am
still in the planning stage for greenhouse considering other geothermal systems..
anyways
so there's a pvc pipe stickin up where a well pump used to be under some bushes,
it's bad spot to put the green house, or anything, but i wonder whats down there..

so last night i tied a string to plastic bottle, lowered down hole i guess about 80ft,
there is some water but not deep, because i put rocks in the bottle to help it sink,
soon as i hear it hit water it stops dropping down, so it must be mostly dried up??

well i got about a cup of water.. it had something in it.. at first i think a dead spider,
but no it has a tiny tail, it's a little tiny cave crab! though sadly it was already dead.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7340/10211977843_26fa98898e_z.jpg)
Female cave crab (Cerberusa tipula)
(https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/c0338987/800wm)

my question is: Does that suggest the well hole is connected to larger cave system?

Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: CalyxCrystals on December 27, 2019, 12:39:03 am
Whoa that crab is neat, probably is a sort of cave system down there.

As for you geothermal calculations your first one would be correct if its asking for square ft, the second calculation is cubic ft.
Also if you have 1000 feet of pipe to pull through your gonna need some strong fans to move that air. Those could easily end up costing more than the pipe.  100ft for a 20x50 doesn't seem like enough tho. I have no experience with geothermal/ earth batteries, but i sure would rather get it right the first time than have to dig it up and redo it. I don't think i like the earth battery system tho, seems like with a normal geo set up you would get the added benefit of fresh air exchange. Granted you would probably need 4x the pipe to get the same effect, but pulling air through 4x100ft pipes with 2 90* bends in each should take a lesser fan than 1x100 with many more 90* bends. Bends kill the fans CFMs really quick.
The double layer will also keep it a tad cooler in summer especially if your geothermal is effective. Ive also read that it helps with humidity, but im at a loss as to if that is true or why it would be.
I've been playing with the idea of building a greenhouse, not nearly the size your going after, more in the 10x20 range. Im in a zone 5b/6a climate and have been pondering doing a geothermal set up and also making the floor of the green house 4 feet or so below ground level to cut down on heating cost in winter. Would be nice for the cacti to have a permanent home and not have to lug them all inside every winter.
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on December 29, 2019, 01:18:16 am

thank you for clarifying that square feet thing!
well ive decided against doing the geothermal thing,

because ground water would probably flood it..
then have to be pumped out or maybe ruin it,
pumps and fans would run to much electricity,
a well hole could be drilled to drain any extra groundwater,
but that would be another 500 something,
also it's 60-70'F at night now in middle of winter.

so going to do the double layer hoop house, and see how that goes.

maybe next year, there is a sloping area that would be great for traditional long strait pipe style.

Quote
The double layer will also keep it a tad cooler in summer especially if your geothermal is effective.
cool that is good news!
 
Quote
Ive also read that it helps with humidity, but im at a loss as to if that is true or why it would be.
the fan blows moist air in between double layers where it cools and condenses and runs to the bottom.
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: CalyxCrystals on December 29, 2019, 04:41:08 pm
No problem.
Yeah I like the geothermal idea, and there is a video on youtube of a guy growing citrus trees in Nebraska using a geothermal setup, so they can work. The cost could get pretty high, especially if you don't have your own equipment.
Depending on you climate it might not be worth it. You say 60-70f right now, so you probably don't see freezes in your area, I would use the funds on exhaust fans to keep the temp closer to the outside temp when its hot, rather than geothermal if I lived in an area with no freezes.
Good luck with your greenhouse build, should be a sweet setup with the fish "ponds".

Quote
the fan blows moist air in between double layers where it cools and condenses and runs to the bottom.
Now that makes perfect sense.

Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: MadPlanter on December 29, 2019, 04:43:40 pm
Best tip I can give for sustainable sales having been an online seller for nearly a decade is diversity. More to offer not only increases people looking for specific single species to buy but increases traffic visibility that leads people to examine all of what you have. Inadvertently leading some to buy more than they originally intended. Niche products like extremely rare entheogens, out of the ordinary herbs and edibles, solid normal herbs and edibles, and often sought after and not so sought after ornamental species will lead a variety of buyers to you as well. I personally don't carry ornamental species but I'm sure many just want non food or useful species. My niche is useful or edible permaculture species. Don't have anything against sheerly ornamental species but I want to offer exclusively useful species and have a lack there of, of space in my endeavors to offer a whole lot more than I already do. My goal is to get more diversity of useful species more places as an inadvertent means to create intended or unintended sustainability in more areas. In an ever changing world some crops may fail and that weird unusual edible may step up to the plate when all else collapses and provide the needed food supply a group of people may need when between a rock and a hard place. Whether or not they "like" whatever that species may be to their tastes etc. Believe it they will eat whatever before starving. I grow malabar spinach yearly because it's a great producer and seller although we rather not eat it ourselves but in desperation we totally would if the need arise.
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on January 03, 2020, 03:43:25 am
yes i agree lots of posts on ebay equals lots of sales, i'm tired of ebay though, they take a big percent$ almost makes it not worth the trouble,
almost have to rip off customers just to brake even, i want to do a website (40$ month) and maybe an annual paper magazine or something.

...malabar is pretty good one, okinawa, longevity, brazillian, new zealand, <spinaches are all fast to grow, and make easy cuttings.
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: MadPlanter on January 04, 2020, 02:39:22 pm
Ya man eBay does suck anymore. Etsy is better and generates more sales but also fees there too increasing. Both no longer get free advertising on major search engines like Google which totally slows sales big time. I think they are trying to cater to the large guys that can handle the BS and push the little guys outta existence personally. Bonanza just totally sucks don't try selling there unless you want like 2 sales per 6 months lol...

When eBay kicked all the entheogen listings off it kicked me in the nuts fiercely. Heimia and Phalaris is about the only thing I can list without it being taken down within an hour. The funny thing is though that others even in the USA still got their stuff up from time to time and apparently aren't being bothered. Even dried ready to use material no less but I list a PV leaf and it's down in 15 min...

I've wanted to open my own site for a long time. Unfortunately I'm like mostly tech illiterate. Have a buddy that is a tech genius and I've asked him to help in which I'm more than willing to give him all the credit for the designing of the site. He agreed to help but then never seriously would do anything so I just quit asking.

Don't have the New Zealand spinach but do have all those others. They are super easy to propagate and are good sellers too.

Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on January 05, 2020, 06:14:58 am
if looking for website weebly.com was pretty easy to figure out,
you can create a free site.. it just adds .weebly.com at the end,
(not suppose to sell from the free site, but i suppose you could)

or if you pay monthly fee, they remove the .weebly.com and let you sell stuff,
40$ i think they don't take any percentage and list unlimited items.
25$/month they take some percentage and limited items..
i can't remember exactly, but that sounds right.
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on January 11, 2020, 01:49:13 am
i was bored, here some picts..

Found some fairy shrimp! lowered magnet and cup attached to string into well hole..
magnet helped cup sink, and was hoping for soil sample, but string not long enough.

had a broken laser light and pulled it apart..
the lens and tube it screws into makes a nice micro-lens-cap for webcam..
wish i could upload the video it's much more clear, but you can almost see the shrimp in the picture.. :P

(https://www.shroomery.org/forums/thumbs/20-002/870069308-thumb_WIN_20191027_17_56_10_Pro.jpg)
(https://files.shroomery.org/files/20-002/870069398-WIN_20191027_17_49_09_Pro.jpg)

very tiny harpoon was only thing attached to magnet
(https://www.shroomery.org/forums/thumbs/20-002/870069489-thumb_WIN_20191027_17_15_29_Pro.jpg)

only slightly dirty finger tips
(https://www.shroomery.org/forums/thumbs/20-002/870070949-thumb_WIN_20191027_05_46_47_Pro.jpg)
(https://www.shroomery.org/forums/thumbs/20-002/870070632-thumb_WIN_20191027_05_46_55_Pro.jpg)
holding quarts crystal rock
(https://files.shroomery.org/files/20-002/870069808-WIN_20191027_05_53_36_Pro.jpg)

tiny blue truck on fingernail?
(https://files.shroomery.org/files/20-002/870070135-WIN_20191027_05_49_51_Pro.jpg)
(https://files.shroomery.org/files/20-002/870070532-WIN_20191027_05_48_06_Pro.jpg)

 ..so little people are real?! maybe but little invisible shrimps in your drinking water is very possible.  ;D
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on January 14, 2020, 11:22:04 pm
glow worms !!! the other night planting stuff in the yard after dark...
i noticed little glowing lights in the soil, so i brought some into the light,
they look like common earth worms, but smaller.. about 1'long.. 1mm wide.
with glowing heads ...i want to ID the worms, anyone know their name? ...
they are not firefly larvas, which are bigger, and look like a centipede.

i collected them in a big pickle jar.. in hope i can breed a bunch of them.

update>  i think they are: Microscolex phosphoreus
(http://www.theturfdiseasecentre.co.uk/pests%20and%20moss/Microscolex.JPG)
(https://www.hackteria.org/wiki/images/thumb/2/21/Life_that_Glows_Attenborough_1.jpg/500px-Life_that_Glows_Attenborough_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on February 14, 2020, 02:31:27 am
Any suggestions for water-sealing a raised wood frame?
..(maybe plastic liner, cover bottom/sides with concrete, and another plastic liner,
 if concrete isn't to expensive.. would any concrete do, or special type for ponds?)
Finally finished the wood-frame for the pond..
it was a lot more building than i was thinking.

next the pvc hoops will be attached, plastic roof covered, door frame built, pond sealed, aquaponics setup, and done.
Title: Re: Starting nursery, woodrosegrove, tips appreciated :)
Post by: ONandONandON on June 28, 2020, 10:07:20 pm
sooo...
the hoophouse was cheap and easy, finished within hours.. even built a second smaller greenhouse with the leftovers..
fishpond has been expensive and difficult :P finally finished the concrete, now painting with dry-lok waterproofer.
almost finished, hoping it holds water, because if not it just becomes a really expensive raised flower bed.

one problem is it gets very hot in there, even with the fan blowing into the double layer, it probably gets in the 100's
i'm hoping the pond will cool it down at least 20 degrees.. also water should slow release heat in winter time.
thinking about attaching tube to the outer-layer plastic to let the air out into the second greenhouse.