Share The Seeds
Gardening Area => Seeds and Germination => Topic started by: Lukas123 on August 13, 2013, 10:37:47 PM
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I have used a sand method when i germinate my cactus seeds and it really have worked very well.
So i thought i can describe how i do this if other want to try this method.
I germinate them on ordinary sand in a petridish or glass jar with a plastic bag around.
Here is the procedure:
I take ordinary sand, the bag says "sand for childrens play area" or something similar.
I wash the sand thoroughly with tap water.
I then make a bleach/water mix, 1/10 bleach/water (10%) and let the sand soak in this over night.
Then i wash the sand again with tap water and put it into my petridishes or glass jars.
One can nuke the sand in the microwave as an additional step but i usually don't.
The sand should be moist but no standing water.
Seeds.
I make a 1/20 bleach/water mix (5%) in a glass and put in the seeds.
I then swirl around the seeds every minute for 5 minutes and then pour out in a coffee filter.
I then wash the seeds with 3% hydrogen peroxide H2O2 (from pharmacy) and then directly wash them again with tap water.
I now put the seeds on top of the sand in the petridish/glass jar.
The seeds should not be buried, just on top of the moist sand.
The sand should be moist and look wet but no standing water or pools.
I take a clear plasic bag and put the petridish/glass jar inside and mist once with water sprayer.
Fold the bag closed and put the petridish/jar in the window or under a not too strong CFL.
Wait.
Every 2 to 3 days i open the bags to get new fresh air inside and spray some water on sand if it look dry.
If sand look too wet one can suck up a little water with some kitchen/toilet paper.
Seeds will germinate pretty fast and can continue to grow like this for at least 2-3 months probably much longer.
After about 2 months i transplant the small seedlings into soil without fertilizers.
The seedlings are small but the transfer is easy.
I have had very good results with this method and i now only use this method for all cacti seeds.
I include some pics
Good luck
Lukas123
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More pics
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What is the germination rate of the seeds used in this method? What purpose does soaking the seeds in diluted bleach, and then rinsing in H2O2 have? Is this to keep mold at bay or does this help kick start germination?
Great post!
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Germination rates are high but it all depends on the quality and age of the seeds.
The bleach and H2O2 washes of seeds and sand is to get rid of mold spores and such things.
I never get molds in these seed petridishes.
It has nothing to do with germination rates.
Some do soak the seeds in hormone stuff to increase germination but i don't bother.
I have enough seeds and most will germinate anyway.
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Thanks! I will be trying this method next time since my germination rates have been horrible recently. Is there any reason why those pachanoi are pupping at such a young stage? That is extremely unusual.
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Yes the Pachanoi´s and my other Trichocereus have had a big problem with bugs.
I think they are called mealy bugs in english.
After i carefully removed all visible cottony things and sprayed with a pesticide who is not poisonous the Pachanoi´s started to grow like this.
I have many Pachanoi´s looking like this and it is a result of the bug/pest and not the pesticide as i sprayed other Pachanois also who had not been infected by the bug and they don't get this weird growth.
I wonder how they will look when they get bigger.
I can post more pics of the weird growth on these small Pachanoi´s if you like.
Lukas123
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Nice writeup. Perfect tek, i use this but w/o plastic covers.
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Have you ever had issues with this method? I used a ton of loph seeds with this method and i usually see my sprouts by now. I only see 1/500 now though. Kind of having me worried. Also, the one sprout that popped up looks like it died.
How do you wash your sand after the sterilization?
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Have you ever had issues with this method? I used a ton of loph seeds with this method and i usually see my sprouts by now. I only see 1/500 now though. Kind of having me worried. Also, the one sprout that popped up looks like it died.
How do you wash your sand after the sterilization?
I have never had any issues with this method at all.
Is the sand moist but not so wet that there is standing water?
You say that one seed that did sprout now has died, that seems very strange.
Have you forgot to wash out the bleach solution from the sand with tap water before putting the seeds on top of the sand?
If you nuked the sand in the microwave you must let it cool before putting seeds on top of sand.
I would wash the sand after nuking in microwave with tap water but it should not be necessary.
I wash the sand by having it in a container and add an excess of tap water and stir a little, pour off water and repeat.
I usually have very high germination rates and when the seeds sprout i have never seen any sprout die, ever.
Are you sure the seeds are OK and that you have washed the seeds in water after bleach and H2O2 treatments?
Wait a little longer and then keep us updated what happens.
Lukas123
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I didn't do a microwave step. I probably washed the sand out 10+ times after the bleach wash. The only thing I did that's not in the tek is a GA3 soak. Which usually helps. I think maybe the GA3 soak softened the seeds up so when I did the bleach wash it soaked through into the seed and killed them mostly.
Either that or I didn't wash the sand enough. I'm not sure. There's still no sprouts though and the one that came out did die for sure.
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Maybe you should do the bleach-H2O2-water washes like in his Tek first, and then the GA3 soak second? That way if the GA3 softens the seeds it's already after the bleach was washed off?
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Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Anyways, this is a HUGE lesson for me. Waisting 400 williamsii and 100 williamsii caespitosa is like getting kicked in the groin. Lol.
Just a note to everyone. If you are using GA3 with this method, do not soak the seeds in bleach/h2o2 after the GA3 soak. Do it before. The GA3 soak softens the seed and then when you do the bleach soak it goes through and kills the enzymes and everything.
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Soaking the Lophophora/cactus seeds in 10% bleach for 5 minutes will not damage the seeds, that im certain of as i have done it several times.
But i think it is strange that the hormone soak would damage them, really really strange.
The soaking of the seeds and washing of the sand is only for killing off mold spores and such so just putting 10 on moist sand or soil should make them germinate about the same, maybe you should try this if you have any seeds left.
If you dont wash the sand/soil you usually get mold or green growing but that is after a while and after the seeds germinated.
Are you sure the seeds were OK?
I never ever have had problems like no seeds germinating.
I have had a little lower germination rate from older seeds but never like 5-10% whatever i do.
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Yes, i've germinated these seeds several times. Same batch. It wasn't the GA3 that damaged them, it was either the bleach or h2o2. The reason being I soaked them for 24 hours in the hormone so the shell softened. Then when i did the sterilization it soaked through the shells and killed off all the seeds.
I had them for a couple weeks on the substrate in the normal conditions that i germinate with (i usually get around 50% germination with the hormone and they all germinated within 5 days everytime) and only one popped out but soon after it died. So the only conclusion I can make is that the h2o2 or bleach soaked through because of the shells softening. (Which is what they do after being in water for an adequate amount of time)
I believe that the bleach and h2o2 wont damage the seeds if they haven't already been soaking in something for a day, but it makes sense that if the shells of the seeds were somehow softened that the bleach/h2o2 would kill the seeds.
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great writeup one question could one use a 50-50 coir/sand mixture (New Wisdom seems to like coir, Lukas seems to like sand.. :-\) and pressure cook it in a glass jar for an hour for sterilisation in order to skip the overnight bleach soak?
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great writeup one question could one use a 50-50 coir/sand mixture (New Wisdom seems to like coir, Lukas seems to like sand.. :-\) and pressure cook it in a glass jar for an hour for sterilisation in order to skip the overnight bleach soak?
I have not bleached my sand i threw it in the oven for two hours. This will kill organic matter but not endospores. Two hour min PC will destroy possible endospores.
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I now use 80% sand 20% worm castings. It seems to be the very best mixture for growth. Very nice healthy fat seedlings come from it. But you don't want to bake it with the worm castings in. Sterilize the sand then add the worm castings afterwards to keep the nutrients alive.
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I microwave my sand in quart jar(s) with the lid on lightly while the sand is wet to "field capacity." The water eventually boils away leaving damp to nearly dry sand. Seems to work for me.
S.L.
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What material are the lids for those quart jars made of that makes them microwavable? I can't imagine metal lids being a good idea to microwave...
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White plastic. Made by Ball, the same company as makes the jars.
S.L.
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I know exactly what lids you refer to, that makes things a lot easier :)
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I now use 80% sand 20% worm castings. It seems to be the very best mixture for growth. Very nice healthy fat seedlings come from it. But you don't want to bake it with the worm castings in. Sterilize the sand then add the worm castings afterwards to keep the nutrients alive.
I think you mean keep the beneficial bacteria alive. Nutrients aren't living.
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I'm not going to presume to speak for New Wisdom, but to the extent that extreme heat or microwaves can denature proteins, nutrients can be affected. Think raw egg as opposed to hard boiled...
S.L.
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I now use 80% sand 20% worm castings. It seems to be the very best mixture for growth. Very nice healthy fat seedlings come from it. But you don't want to bake it with the worm castings in. Sterilize the sand then add the worm castings afterwards to keep the nutrients alive.
I think you mean keep the beneficial bacteria alive. Nutrients aren't living.
I know that nutrients aren't alive dude. Lol. You can change the structure or destroy chemicals with heat or radiation. I meant nutrients. Anyways you want a sterile environment for cactus seeds usually. So I usually don't care to keep those alive.
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I know that nutrients aren't alive dude. Lol.
I meant what you knew. ;D
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I know that nutrients aren't alive dude. Lol.
I meant what you knew. ;D
?
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I now use 80% sand 20% worm castings. It seems to be the very best mixture for growth. Very nice healthy fat seedlings come from it. But you don't want to bake it with the worm castings in. Sterilize the sand then add the worm castings afterwards to keep the nutrients alive.
Absolutely the way to go from what I have seen and New Wisdom and Nanashi are on the money it seems.
In a side by side test I saw recently, that had many cacti varieties from many vendors the difference was truly amazing.
Straight sand was about 20% strike, and growth so slow it wasn't even noticeable. He said he was very disappointed and wouldn't bother doing that again.
Sieved oven baked commercial/premade "Cacti mix" was 33% strike. Reasonable growth and none of the algae and fungal issues he had expected. He had assumed all would probably die, was pleasantly surprised, and said I should definitely try that if I cant get worm casings.
But the oven baked sand with uncooked worm castings was the winner by far.
57% strike rate!(and some of the varieties NONE of the seeds had struck in the other mediums)
All were fat healthy little seedlings that looked about 3x bigger than the others.
The dude had split the whole test into 6x individual 96liter clear plastic "roller boxes" with lids, each containing 77 disposable shot glasses with a hole in the bottom for drainage.
462 individual "pots" for about $7.00 he said, which sounded pretty good to me.
All of the containers were being opened and watered 2x a day, with 3 of the containers being treated with "Fongard" systemic fungicide(250g/kg FURALAXL) in a sprayer.
The other 3 being sprayed with normal rain water 2x a day.
None of the boxes had any algae or mold issues, and the chemical had no effect on germination or growth rates, so he said he wouldn't bother using chemicals in the future, which made me happy. lol.
I hate all that chemical nonsense and it was nice to see I wouldn't need it if I ever moved south and decided to start some cacti seedlings myself.
20% casings 80% baked sand, clean sterilized box, good drainage(he had the little shot glass pots sitting on an oven rack about 2inches off the bottom of the box).
Definitely the way to go!
I might even start a few dragonfruit and opuntia seedlings like that, as it obviously worked really well.
Sort of copied his setup and am going to try growing a few of my more expensive seeds and rare passiflora like that, and run a bit of a test with the acacia later on, then move them out into pots once they get a decent root down.
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Pishkal. I don't like coir for loph seeds, I used to use it for trichocereus seeds. Now I use 80% sand 20% worm castings for both trichs and lophs.
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I'd like to add that Lophs seem to be positively photoblastic, so lots of light might be beneficial for germination. Seedlings are another story, though.
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I'm about to embark on my first attempt at germinating Trichocereus, and have some questions:
Regarding plastic bags to use as a cover, could I use those translucent plastic bags found in supermarket fruit and veg sections, or should I get large transparent ziplock bags?
Could anyone give any advice regarding lighting and temperature?
Should I invest in an electric headbed (I don't have a hotwater cylinder).
Also, it's autumn where I live, should I wait until after winter?
Also, is 80% plain sand and 20% worm castings still the current recommended germination substrate?
If all goes according to plan, I will create an easy to follow pictorial with credit due. Cheers :)
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Are you going to grow them indoors?
I would use either plastic wrap over the top of the pot or the clear ziplock bags.
6500k works great with seedlings. I use 6500k T5 bulbs.
You don't absolutely need a heat pad unless it gets really cold in your house, but I use one. I have it on 16 hours a day. Same times that the lights are on.
If you're growing inside then winter is the perfect time to start them. :)
And that substrate works fine. I've started using 1/1/1 pumice/sand/coir with some added worm castings and slow release ferts recently. But the sand/castings substrate is a great one as well.
Good luck!
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Yeah, will grow them indoors - but it does get freezing in my house. Probably gets to about -4 Celcius outside at the very most over winter. I will get a heatpad, as a fail-safe.
Thanks for the advice on the the lighting, I've never done any indoor grows before, so it's all new to me.
I went to buy some stuff today for my setup, had some difficulty getting distilled water - my supermarket was selling 'deionised water', which is not quite the same thing and may still contain bacteria that might cause problems down the track.
I also went to the pharmacy to get 3% Hydrogen Peroxide, but they only had 6% 9% and 12% - I guess this only means that I need to dilute it further before I use it. But I checked the ingredients and as well as hydrogen peroxide, it also contained: deionized water, cetaryl alcohol, sodium lauryl sulphate, phophoric acid, ethanol and methylparaben. Should I look for a different brand, or are these common additives in pharmacy bought hydrogen peroxide.
Also, what's a good rule for watering?
Sorry for being such a noob, I've read so many different approaches to germinating Trichs, and this one seems like the most straight forward - I'm sure I too will develop my own style and method that works for me.
I cannot wait to get started! ;D
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Deionized water works perfectly. The thing you want to avoid is not necessarily bacteria (unless you're trying a completely sterile grow, which is difficult and not necessary), but the salts and chlorine found in tap water. Also the hydrogen pyroxide probably shouldn't have all that extra stuff. The kind I use is just water and H2O2. For watering I just water from the bottom up and I keep them moist constantly for the first couple months.
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Thankyou New Wisdom, your help has been invaluable :) :)
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Hi All,
With everyone learning and practicing, do you have any new methods? Soil mixes? ect?
Many Thanks,
Hcc
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HCC,
My new soil mix that I use is 1/1/1 Happy Frog soil (screened for bark with 1/8th inch wire mesh)/pumice/washed coarse sand. I've seen very nice growth with this mix, but sometimes have issues with algae. No mold issues though which I was having a lot of with the sand/worm castings mix. Mold is way worse than algae ime.
New Wisdom
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HCC,
My new soil mix that I use is 1/1/1 Happy Frog soil (screened for bark with 1/8th inch wire mesh)/pumice/washed coarse sand. I've seen very nice growth with this mix, but sometimes have issues with algae. No mold issues though which I was having a lot of with the sand/worm castings mix. Mold is way worse than algae ime.
New Wisdom
I've had algae on regular garden edible seed trays and on my cacti trays and it doesn't seem to hurt anything, but like you said I have had mold kill a couple small garden seedlings.
The mix that I'm using my cacti seedlings is equal parts vermiculite, perlite, sand, and miracle grow cactus soil. Seems to work pretty well, some of my high quality hybrid seeds had 100% germination rate, and the other types range between 50% - 80% germ rate. I never bothered with any of the sterilization steps, just use a standard seedling tray with the black bottom and clear lid, air it out every day or other day and spray it with distilled water. It's been a little over a month and mine are doing great. I think the key lesson is to not over think it or mess with them too much with all the chemical/hormone soaking stuff. They just need a good substrate, heat, light, and water (in moderate amounts).
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@New Wisdom:
Did you repeat the TEK again? how was the results?
I have only 10 seeds left, and all my attempts using other TEKs seems to have failed.
I want to give this TEK a shot, using 5 seeds first.
The seeds are 4 years old though (at least, since I don't know for how long they were stored when I bought them)