Share The Seeds
General and Off Topic => General Discussion => Topic started by: 23 on September 17, 2014, 12:50:52 AM
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Heya peeps! I'm very exited about this one!
Yup, ethnobotany is turning out to be my passion..
I'm loaning 15,000 euros from the bank. Do you think that's enough?
I need at least 5,000 for the land i figured. The place i chose is one of the best places in Italy for agriculture, specifically near latina, south of Rome.
I need some advice regarding the greenhouse and whoever is kind enough to share his views on the matter.
Thanks for the support!
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Wish you luck! I have been trying to figure out a viable way to do a nursery business myself. I am pretty low on funds. Lots of ambition though.
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How about you learn about greenhouses for a while and teach us?
Hcc
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You may want to get a plan going and figure out what you have to do before you take out a 15,000 euro loan. That's my only advice.
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Yeah I was just very excited ::)I'll update once I have the info.
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My advice is have lots of fun!
Focus on growing what YOU like to grow and sell, ignore the "competition", and have a blast doing it.
If you are enjoying yourself, it is amazing the income you can live on really comfortably.
And if you are ever not enjoying it, you might as well sell up and get a real job.
Using temperature controlled greenhouses, selling to the local market, I would focus on stuff that is either short term annual, or propagates easily via cuttings.
You might even want to look into the "cut flower" market as a quick money spinner to help repay investment debt?
Best of luck with it all, and definitely keep us informed of your progress!
15,000 Euros. Wow. That's ~3years total earnings for me. :P
Handle it wisely!
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I don't know about italy, but in the USA when you go to take out a loan they expect you to bring a business plan. They like to know that their money isn't going to be lost and that you won't default on the loan. Even if that isn't the case in Italy, it is still a good idea to make one for yourself. Here's a link to how to write one; http://www.sba.gov/writing-business-plan
Check out these vids from wranglerstar. He's one hell of a handyman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4F9rVrb1oM
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This is awesome dude! Good luck! This is a goal of mine as well, but many many years down the pipeline while I focus on getting my architectural career underway! Mad Props! :)
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Yooooo that's what im talking about!!
And this is the place i just HAVE to buy. http://www.immobiliare.it/terreni/45022636-terreno-agricolo-Fiuggi.html the price is 5500 and the place makes me wanna cry of joy.
Thank you fairdinkum for the flower advice, I have my thing on the side to take care of the debt ahhaha.
Thanks sunshine i still haven't watched it but it's exactly what i was looking for!
Also because with a property in such a spot I just have to build an underground house there, so i'd like to cut on buying a greenhouse.
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Wow central Italy is really beautiful. Nice slice of property!
If you are looking underground I am sure you have seen this. (http://www.the-meal.net/graph/manuel_walipina_benson.pdf)
Underground uses passive heat which may not be a big deal in your climate (seems pretty temperate) but you can DIY it the whole way. I have tossed the idea around with family and you can consider making your own brick with a press or what I would prefer some type of rammed earth, see here. (http://www.yourhome.gov.au/materials/rammed-earth)
It is so jingoistic of me but I just had the thought of how much internet coolness people must miss out on when they don't read English.
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The best advice I can give you is: in business think with your head instead your heart.
And have loads of fun with it! ;)
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Just make sure you have it all figured out, how are you going to generate an income? how many plants do you actually have to turn around to eat? The spot looks idyllic but are there enough customers around to supply you with steady flow?
Furthermore its a great plan and indeed allot can be done DIY. In my experience as a small mushroom company its difficult to make a profit when keeping it small. To produce for reasonable prices you need to invest quite allot. And scale beyond what you would think in the first place.
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Just make sure you have it all figured out, how are you going to generate an income? how many plants do you actually have to turn around to eat? The spot looks idyllic but are there enough customers around to supply you with steady flow?
Furthermore its a great plan and indeed allot can be done DIY. In my experience as a small mushroom company its difficult to make a profit when keeping it small. To produce for reasonable prices you need to invest quite allot. And scale beyond what you would think in the first place.
Yeah I'm counting primarily on the fact that I have zero competition - there aren't any shops that sell the kind of plants I like in the whole of Italy.. If you're italian you just have to order from the nederlands. And I'm not planning this to get rich I just want to do what I like.. Plus it's not my only source of income and I'kl be doing all sorts of things on the side. Always for passion.
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Another thing to consider is the law.
The law is an ass, BUT, if you have a clear and accurate understanding of it, and have done the research it goes both ways.
it is just a tool, and you too can use it.
Pay some $ and get an assessment of your business done in writing(I shows you are responsible and have done your "due diligence/duty of care")
It also gives you 100% clarity on what you can do, and in the event of issues(which there will be if you are the only vendor in the country), you can avoid any serious dramas.
If you choose a grey area, then at least you will know potential outcomes of any issues.
It may mean that you will have to scrap some parts of your plans, but it will give you security and piece of mind promoting every other aspect.
Unexpected, unwanted visitors or inspections, won't be an issue, which is a wonderful feeling I must say!
The occasional nutty customer or competitor, making threats or doing their best to get you in the shit won't be an issue either.
Definitely pay a professional. Friends and competitors Knowledge of the law as it is written is often very lacking.
What I was advised may times by those in the know was very very wrong.
Many competitors may be breaking the law for years and years, without any issues, BUT, me personally, I never want to risk it.
I like the quite life too much, and a once of large investment in piece of mind is well worth it.
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As a lawyer I cannot second faidinkumseeds comment more.
Substantively the only thing I will add is that being proactive will make you a better businessman and conversely the lawyers will get better.
The attorney's big secret is in pretending to know how things work, but having a complete familiarity/competence with a particular niche business is really powerful. For instance I know where to find the administrative and statutory code that governs tattoo parlors/door-to-door sales/energy retailers/HVAC/and dog walking. My expertise allows my clients to focus on bringing bigger and better and more efficient products/services to market.
So what I am saying is, it would behoove you to find an expert (not a jailhouse lawyer but a real one who is legally required to either be an expert or learn to be one [I honestly didn't know the proper autoclave procedures for a tattoo parlor in my state; but I did know how to find ALL THE MINUTIA AND RULES THAT APPLY to the client and convey said rules in an easily digestible format]) so that they can concentrate on making the most amazing body art imaginable.
Money invested on compliance and piece of mind is money well spent, god only knows what weird rules the EU has designed to protect Portugal agribusiness lobby and smash little guys like you that run afoul. It adds value by allowing you to do what you do best, provide a spectrum of plants that are desirable.
-Ian
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Wow thank you I will definitely consult my father's lawyer or any other I come across and pay him to get all the details.
Yes being completely protected is the only way to go, especially for people with my kind of profile. People like me are often judged much from their appearance alone. But anyway thank you I'll make sure I invest all the time and effort necessary. :)
This is a list of plants i can cultivate in Italy:
Acacia (all)
Anadenanthera colubrina & peregrina
banisteriopsis caapi
Brugmansia spp.
Calea zacatechichi
Camellia sinensis
Coffea arabica
Cola nitida
Coleus blumei
Conium maculatum
Convulvus tricolor
Datura spp.
Desmanthus illinoensis/leptolobus
Diplopterys cabrerana
Echinopsis lageniformis
Echinopsis pachanoi
Echinopsis peruviana
Ephedra spp.
Ilex paraguariensis (Yerba mate)
Hyoscyamus niger
Justicia pectoralis
Lactuca virosa
Leonotis leunurus/nepetifolia
Leonurus cardiaca
Lophophora diffusa (forse)
Mandragora officinarum
Matricaria recutita
Mentha spp
Mikania cordifolia (da vedere)
Mimosa tenuiflora
Mitragyna speciosa
Mucuna pruriens
Nelumbo nucifera
Nicotiana rustica
Nymphaea caerulea
Nepeta cataria
Passiflora ssp.
Paullinia cupana (guarana)
Peganum Harmala
Picralima (tabernaemontana nitida)
Piper auritum
Piper betel
Piper methysticum (kava)
Psychotria viridis/nexus/alba
Ricinus communis
Salvia (nodivinorum)
Sassafras albidum
Sceletium emarcidum/tortuosim
Silene undulata/capensis
Sophora secundiflora
Stevia rebaudiana
Synsepalum dulcificum
Tabernaemontana angulata/elegans/divaricata
Tabernanthe iboga
Theobroma cacao
Turbina corymbosa
Ugnadia speciosa
Virola spp.
Voacanga africana
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I'm updating this as ideas flourish.
http://www.tomorrowsgarden.net/content/rain-tower-vertical-hydroponic-system
http://www.powerhousehydroponics.com/10-vertical-hydroponic-gardening-systems/
^Here we find a way to maximize space for germination and early growth, potentially giving 100 plants per 10 square feet, with minimum expenses.
I plan in using this method to germinate and for early growth of just about anything from bamboo to acacias.
I figured this will provide good profit espescially for startup purposes.
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Hi 23,
That is one beautiful piece of land in that first post! Wow!
One piece of advice, and this goes along with consulting an attorney... be sure those plants are really all legal to cultivate. I'm unfamiliar with Italian law, but in the US the Controlled Substances Act, which I believe is mirrored in many European countries, only specifically prohibits cannabis and lopophora williamsi (making all parts of those plants illegal), but it makes possession of anything which contains a controlled substance illegal too. Generally it has been enforced only when there is intent, but that's not the letter of the law.
Good luck with it all. :)
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Thank you! very much appreciated! I'm glad you liketheplace :))
Yeah in italy the illegal plants are listed in the illegal substances list.
This makes Argyreia nervosa, Catha edulis, erythroxylum, ipomea violacealophophora williamsii, papaver somniferum, ryvea corymbrosa, salvia d and all psylo-shrooms illegal.
The rest is fair game.
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The most important thing to look at is the UN Narcotics and Psychotropic Conventions. These treaties have been ratified by ALL 193 UN countries. Each country has a different definition on the treaties, i.e. the alkaloids in Lophophora sp have been legislated against in all countries but in some countries a living specimin is not illegal. The country I live in does not legislate against a ¨substance¨ inside a living plant (there are 3 exceptions) but they do provide the death penalty for traffiking and production, including any ¨farming¨ activities done with intent for usage or distribution.
When I was setting up my nursery the attorney spent almost 6 months helping me define the proper, legal way to do things. While it was quite expensive it could possibly be the best thing I have ever spent money on.
Fortunately for us we are not in the USA or OZ as they take everything to a retarded level of prohibition.
nobody
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the USA or OZ ... take everything to a retarded level of prohibition.
word
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yeah making a plant illegal is like making bird illegal XD
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I am in the EU until next Summer. If you are up and running before I leave, I will try to come down and visit :D
Or...if you need some help setting up, I would work for shelter, food and travel 8)
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Wow that sounds amazing! So maybe I already have a colleague! I didn't see that one coming!
Seriously I'll let you know it would be an honor to say the least. As soon as I get it started consider it available. Plus if you like it we could be partners. Wow what a strange day... first the cops (4 cars plus the psyco-doctors) come to my house unannounced. I'm thinking "s**t maybe they know something i still don't", instead they just wanted to see me(I have quite a reputation). AND they offered me a little job! AHAHA and now this offer. Thank you!
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I'd really like a like-minded person to share the experience.