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Gardening Area => Growing questions and answers => Topic started by: New Wisdom on June 25, 2014, 09:20:28 am

Title: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on June 25, 2014, 09:20:28 am
Identifying "PC" Pachanoi and "Real" Pachanoi

Not a lot of people know, but most "pachanoi" being sold these days is not the plant they're expecting. I wont go into details as to why it is undesirable to most ethnobotanical cactus growers, but it's not hard to figure out.  Most of the pictures of pachanoi I see people posting here and other forums are actually PC pachanoi. This is a very beautiful plant that is great for grafting stock and ornamental reasons, but it is not much of an ethnobotanical plant like real pachanoi.  I would like to help clear some of the confusion around it and give a resource of identification for anyone looking to get some real pachanoi.  If any of you have any corrections/additions to the information I'm posting here I welcome you to post it and maybe, together, we can make a great way to identify "PC" pachanoi from real pachanoi. 

PC pachanoi

Things you will see on PC pachanoi
PC pachanoi has a very distinct look that, once trained, anyone can spot out.  The ribs have a very angular shape. When looking at the profile of the ribs it has a saw like, serrated look to it. In my experience growing this plant the spines are always the same length no matter the conditions.  They are about .5-1cm long.  The areoles and spines are facing upwards. It has a nice green color to it. The flowers have white hair on them. Real pachanoi has black hair on the flowers.
.
Things you wont see on PC pachanoi
You wont see long spines, "V" notches above the areoles, black hair on the flowers, glaucus blue color (correct me if I'm wrong) ect... (Will update with more research)

Real pachanoi

Real pachanoi can vary greatly. It is not just one clone like PC pachanoi is. So I've decided to just post pictures of real pachanoi clones. The attributes I listed above under "Things you wont see on PC pachanoi" are attributes that you will find on real T. pachanoi clones.

Now I could keep on talking, but a picture says 1000 words. 

PC pachanoi Photos

Take note of the saw shape of the ribs, the upward facing areoles, and the consistant length of the spines.

(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=6357;image)
(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=6363;image)
(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=6361;image)

PC Flowers and fruits.  Take note of the white hairs on the buds/fruits.

(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=6369;image)
(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=6371;image)


Real pachanoi Photos

Take note of the spine variation, V notches above the areoles, and the color of the skin.

(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=6375;image)
(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=6365;image)


Feel free to use this thread to ask if your pachanoi is PC or not.  Also if you have some pictures of Non-PC pachanoi I would appreciate if you post them.  This information isn't %100.  It is just what I have learned over the years.  If you have any corrections/additions please post.

Thanks to misplant for the photos of healthy mature pc.

Thanks!
New Wisdom

Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Roze on June 25, 2014, 03:18:06 pm
Great post NW!

Can you help to ID this little guy?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on June 25, 2014, 03:47:25 pm
Great post NW!

Can you help to ID this little guy?

Thanks!

Roze,

That looks like a T. peruvianas var. cuzcoensis because of the one long spine with a conical shape, large at the base and narrows towards the tip. What are your thoughts NewWisdom?

ID'ing unknown Trichs is fairly difficult. There's a lot of confusion around the genus.

But as New Wisdom said, once you get an eye for ID'ing PC pachanoi its fairly easy.

Hcc
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on June 25, 2014, 05:40:35 pm
I was thinking T. cuzcoensis as well. 
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Mandrake on June 25, 2014, 05:58:38 pm
Very useful post, thank you :)

Too bad the dubious PC/Pachanoi I spotted was sold before I had the chance to pick it up myself...

Mandrake
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Greentoe on June 25, 2014, 10:32:21 pm
Awesome write up!

Here are some of the different pachanoi I have. I don't believe any of them are PC. Most have the V-notch. I also have one that came as a gift with a bridgesii I bought. The guy said it was a San Pedro, but I'm not sure if it's a pachanoi at all.

Pic 1 T pachanoi "Claude"
Pic 2 T pachanoi "Juuls Giant"
Pic 3 T pachanoi semi-monstrose
Pic 4 T pachanoi monstrose
Pic 5 Mystery Pedro
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on June 25, 2014, 11:06:28 pm
Those are all for sure non-PC . Nice bunch of clones. Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Greentoe on June 27, 2014, 01:40:19 am
What do you think about that last one? Does it look like a pachanoi to you?
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on June 27, 2014, 04:23:16 am
It does to me. Or at least it's in the pachanoi/peruvianus complex.  I'm not the best at IDing the whole genus trichocereus. So don't take my word on that.  I have gotten good at spotting PC though.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Auxin on June 27, 2014, 08:51:06 pm
Thought this might be of interest to some, a PC planted between two T. scopulicola clones
Note how (when they are well watered) the PC's ribs are angular and the scops are bulbous (yes, trichs are growing intercropped with kale in the background :P)
(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=6494;image)

PC (left) has areoles pointing almost straight up, scop areoles angle up just a little)
(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=6496;image)

Closeup of scop to show shorter thinner spines and the V notches that I think look like seagulls
(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=6498;image)
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: marshmellow on July 18, 2014, 02:01:47 am
Got some to get identified, looks to me I have a bunch of PC's but we will see
 
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on July 18, 2014, 03:37:38 am
They all look PC to me as well. Although there are a few pachanoi clones that look just like PC, but it's more likely they are PC.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: marshmellow on July 18, 2014, 03:51:20 am
Well seems I have been collecting the wrong cactus for many years. Not sure exactly what this means,  is there still of value to ethnobotanical just less value maybe? Not sure how to ask that one.  I ask because so many people have them and have have them for ethnobotanical uses ?
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: EIRN on July 18, 2014, 03:56:51 am
Well seems I have been collecting the wrong cactus for many years. Not sure exactly what this means,  is there still of value to ethnobotanical just less value maybe? Not sure how to ask that one.  I ask because so many people have them and have have them for ethnobotanical uses ?

 have some PC and discover the "history" here, just like you. No matter what people say, one day I will test myself.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on July 18, 2014, 04:06:30 am
PC pachanoi has extremely low mescaline content, but other alkaloids are present.  Please, lets not go any further with this conversation. We will be breaking the rules shortly if we continue down this path.

New Wisdom
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: marshmellow on July 18, 2014, 01:19:22 pm
Thanks that was what I wanted to know.  Sorry not trying to break any rules ,  was just a little confused for a minute.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on July 18, 2014, 06:49:39 pm
We didn't break any rules, but it was getting a little close to that kind of discussion. Hehe.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Frog Pajamas on July 18, 2014, 06:57:08 pm
Marshmellow's second pic is PC? It looks to me like very shallow V-notches are present.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on July 18, 2014, 07:21:03 pm
That one does have tiny "v" shaped notches on them but It looks just like a PC to me. And the notches I'm talking about are more like the ones that look like seagulls.  where it's kind of like this ---v---, rather than this V.  To simplify, I still think it's a PC. 
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Auxin on July 18, 2014, 09:24:55 pm
On the up side, thats a cute little penis you have there, bottom right of KIMG0902.jpg
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: marshmellow on July 18, 2014, 09:52:27 pm
Thanks for all the help everyone

On the up side, thats a cute little penis you have there, bottom right of KIMG0902.jpg
Thank I got a bunch of them around
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on August 02, 2014, 08:08:01 am
I finally found some non-PC pachanoi at home depot. I had to journey to 10 different stores all around the surrounding cities here.  Was stoked when I found these along with some matucana and other plants.  Here are some photos.

The first photo is of a PC in the center of the two non-pc pots.  The next three photos are the non-pc clone.  You can see the seagull marks/V notches above the areoles.  Otherwise it looks nearly identical.  I actually thought they were pc at first glance, but on further inspection realized they aren't and got very excited. Hehe.   The last photo is of a PC plant.  You can see the differences if you look closely.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on August 02, 2014, 08:47:11 pm
Well seems I have been collecting the wrong cactus for many years. Not sure exactly what this means,  is there still of value to ethnobotanical just less value maybe? Not sure how to ask that one.  I ask because so many people have them and have have them for ethnobotanical uses ?

They make great grafting stock for the more "desirable" species. I have tons of PC pach and grafting is exactly what I use it for.

In March I grafted a bridgesii tip onto PC pach and the bridgesii is about 10" tall already.

Hcc
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on August 03, 2014, 04:04:55 am
I agree with HCC.  PC isn't useless. I grab any PC pachanoi that I find around here just for grafting.  I also have a few growing for ornamental purposes.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Morbidbystandard on August 03, 2014, 09:04:17 am
What do you think of these guys?
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Frog Pajamas on August 03, 2014, 04:02:58 pm
Looking at the skin color, serrated looking edge, short spines, and upturned areoles, I think you've got PC.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on August 03, 2014, 07:13:10 pm
Kind of hard to ID from the pictures, but it looks like PC to me.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: goldenseeds on September 03, 2014, 06:33:24 pm
if anyone would id these that wold be great, i bought them from a mescaline cati vendor the firts is a "regular" pachanoi and the second a spineless
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Greentoe on September 03, 2014, 08:50:19 pm
Neither of those look like the PC clone to me
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: goldenseeds on September 03, 2014, 09:13:20 pm
whoohooo

thanks
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: MadPlanter on September 03, 2014, 09:55:12 pm
Found this beast at home depot yesterday! Looked kinda PC like so that's what I believe it to be. Was labeled T. pachanoi monstrous but it doesn't look very monstrous to me. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Chicsa on September 03, 2014, 09:59:38 pm
This one looks identical to the one I picked up at Home Depot the other day Mine was labeled the same as urs too!
I believe it to be PC
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: MadPlanter on September 03, 2014, 10:09:38 pm
Ya I think its PC but hey good graft stock! Could put a big loph on these babies! If I had more than one large loph that is...

PC is good for more than grafting just need a bunch which isn't hard as it grows fast!
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Auxin on September 04, 2014, 12:16:22 am
The 'spineless pachanoi' is most likely a T. scopulicola
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: solaritea on September 04, 2014, 07:13:11 am
Altmans is getting sloppy with their labeling.
Both MadPlanter and Chickasaw Man's plants above are PC pachanoi.

I got about 8 tiny terscheckiis from Altmans recently. Half were labeled terscheckii and half were labeled Cereus sp..
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on September 04, 2014, 06:28:50 pm
Quote from: solaritea
Altmans is getting sloppy with their labeling.

That's what I was thinking!!  Their monstrose pachanoi clone is the non-pc clone.  Their T. pachanoi clone is usually PC.  I recently bought some labelled T. pachanoi, but it was actually their monstrose non-pc clone. 
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: bluespottedfrog on September 08, 2014, 06:37:34 am
so heres my dumb q.  are all crested/monstrose plants non pc..?
i know, im like  :o
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on September 08, 2014, 07:25:40 am
Theoretically since it's a clone there isn't, but there is a crest/monstrose clone in circulation that looks EXACTLY like PC when it's growing normally (non-crested/monstrose.)
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Auxin on September 08, 2014, 09:55:08 am
Not all crests and monsters are that way from seed. Clones can go funky, so a PC crest is certainly possible.
But I've never heard of one.

I wonder if it could be used as grafting stock for a crested peyote :P
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: bluespottedfrog on September 08, 2014, 04:42:38 pm
well, getting slightly off subject, but thats like i've heard that cresting could be the result of an infection of some sort...  so what if we grafted a normal plant onto a crest, would that cause the scion to crest? 
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on September 08, 2014, 05:18:44 pm
so what if we grafted a normal plant onto a crest, would that cause the scion to crest?

I don't think so, but I'm not sure. Maybe it's worth a shot?

Also, here's a photo of a Non-PC-pachanoi. I've titled it "Khronos" for my collection.

So here you have it, "Trichocereus pachanoi cv. Khronos"

It tends to have very small or no spines and gets up to 6" in diameter. I will do my best to propagate this one and get it out to STS folks. It's a very special pachanoi.

Hcc

P.S. Yes, I put crystals in with my cacti. hehehehe
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on September 08, 2014, 07:53:00 pm
well, getting slightly off subject, but thats like i've heard that cresting could be the result of an infection of some sort...  so what if we grafted a normal plant onto a crest, would that cause the scion to crest?

Cresting is mostly genetic and a little environmental.  There is one virus or something in Austrocylindropuntia subulata monstrose that can be contagious, but normal crests are not. Cresting although can be passed down through offspring. That made it possible to have mutant trich seeds and now I have tons of crested seedlings. Hehe.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Auxin on September 08, 2014, 08:10:14 pm
[OT]
Genetics seems to just lend a propensity toward cresting, rather than a direct cause.
Fasciation has been demonstrated to be induced by all classes of plant pathogens and pests.
That said, I got some cresty seedlings from crested parents too. I sliced bits off, squeezed the juice out, and used that juice and a cactus spine to 'tattoo' the tips of several unrelated trichs. No cresting was induced. I then made more crest juice and used it to pre-soak 3 batches of unrelated seed. Theyre still small, but as yet theres no cresting. Its too bad, because either technique would be an awesome trick.
[/OT]
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on September 08, 2014, 08:18:25 pm
I've heard of bug attacks causing a plant to crest, but I've never seen it happen.  I've also had crested pups show up on non crested plants.  That pup keeps cresting, but when it pups it's not a crest.  And no other crests have shown up on the plant since.  It was a sulcorebutia rauschii.  That one seemed like it was something environmental, but I have no clue what it could have been.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: marshmellow on September 09, 2014, 02:43:19 am
Dose this mean that an Areole from a non crested part of a crested t. Pachanoi would be a true pachanoi ?
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on September 09, 2014, 03:31:37 am
Areole grafts from crested plants typically don't have crested pups no matter where you take the areole, from what I hear.  But yeah, it wouldn't be a PC pachanoi unless you got the areole from a PC. 
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Greentoe on November 27, 2014, 11:47:37 pm
These are some cacti I bought awhile back and left at my dad's house to fend for themselves. The first two pics are of a pachanoi. It looks a bit different from the other pachanoi I have. It has some PC characteristics but I'm not sure. The next one was bought as a peruvianus. It has v notches so that's probably not a bad sign.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on November 28, 2014, 04:57:37 pm
Hey Greentoe,

Cactus 1 looks like a T. scopulicola to me. It has the fatter ribs and strange V-notches that scopulicolas can have. Not 100% sure though, time will tell.

Hcc
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on November 28, 2014, 09:01:53 pm
Cant really tell if the first is PC until it puts on some thick consistent new growth.  I don't think it's scopulicola though since it has visible spines. 
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Auxin on November 28, 2014, 09:02:52 pm
#1 is not a scopulicola, the spines are much too long for a long spined scop and it appears serrated from the side view with the areoles turned up. Looks like a PC grown under varying conditions to me.
#2 damned if I know, sexy tho ;) The large areole pads made it look to be in the macrogonus/peruvianus/cuzcoensis spectrum but it has no long central and the stem looks pachanoid. I'd guess a pachanoi with nice broad areoles. Keep it, for sure.
#3 is a possible T. knuthianus
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Greentoe on November 28, 2014, 09:33:41 pm
Thank you all for the input.

Quote
#2 damned if I know, sexy tho  The large areole pads made it look to be in the macrogonus/peruvianus/cuzcoensis spectrum but it has no long central and the stem looks pachanoid. I'd guess a pachanoi with nice broad areoles. Keep it, for sure.

#2 is a top view of #1
The areoles lower on it are tiny in comparison to the new growth.

Quote
#3 is a possible T. knuthianus

Never heard of T. knuthianus before I'll have to read up on that one.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on November 28, 2014, 10:24:21 pm
A spined scop is no scop to me!! :P
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on November 29, 2014, 04:22:27 am
A spined scop is no scop to me!! :P

Ummmmmm. What? You be talking crazy talk.

If you've seen one in person, you'd know they have spines.  ;) 8) ::) :P

Kidding kidding, But for real, that's like saying all men at 40 go bald. Genetics differ.

It's difficult to see but every areola has spines. You can kind of see the older ones near the mid-right part of the photo.

Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on November 29, 2014, 05:10:14 am
Also, here's a PC pup from a very, very neglected cactus. It fell off the balcony into an alley last Spring where it sat bare-root all summer. Come August, I put it back in soil and I recently used the pup for grafting stock.

Once the pup started growing, it looked like a scopulicola with the fat ribs and small spines. Once it reached a certain point, the PC characteristics came back.

A.K.A. (as auxin put it) a PC grown under varying conditions.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on November 29, 2014, 10:18:48 am
I call those T. cordobensis, not T. scopulicola.  The one in the picture you posted.  Some people call them scopulicola though.  I guess it's a matter of opinion.  The genuine (IMO) T. scops, even when mature and growing in the ground, have virtually no visible spines unless you go right up to the areole and dig in the fur a little bit or  press it really hard with your finger.  Here's a picture of my scopulicola from sacred succulents. 

 After the pictures of a cutting is one i found on google.  It's a mature branch of the scopulicola i'm talking about.    But who knows, maybe all the spineless ones just came from one clone a long time ago. They all look exactly the same and you can't find genuine scopulicola seeds pretty much anywhere since there aren't many clones around.  Supposedly the species doesn't exist in nature anymore, but the original species described by it's discoverer (backeburg i think?) was spineless in habitat. I definitely understand your viewpoint though!

The one after that is what I consider to be T. cordobensis.  Basically a spined scopulicola.

Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Auxin on November 29, 2014, 08:27:55 pm
Ritter described scopulicola, in that he was clearly primarily looking at the 'belly button' type with sunken areoles but he noted plants were observed with exposed areoles and 1 mm spines.
you can't find genuine scopulicola seeds pretty much anywhere since there aren't many clones around.
Sounds like a thing for STS to fix ;)
I have the exposed areole 1mm spine clone, if mine ever flower I'll desiccate and save pollen. If everyone with a scop does the same then eventually we could get different clones crossed and spread seed around. Who wouldnt want the chance to grow out 20 and name the best one after their cat or their favorite anime character or something :P
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on November 29, 2014, 08:50:13 pm
That's actually what I want to do.  I'd love to cross two of the spineless ones (because i have a fetish for them) and grow the seeds out.

Do you know if ritter described (visible) spined specimen  in habitat?
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on November 30, 2014, 01:49:38 am
Well, well, what a conundrum.  :o

On Trout's website, he call the one that I have T. scopulicolus

He calls the spineless one T. scopulicola

http://troutsnotes.com/tag/scopulicola/
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on November 30, 2014, 01:58:27 am
Interesting! Never heard of scopicolus.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Auxin on November 30, 2014, 02:11:15 am
Thats backbergs folly.
Ritter coined the species as Trichocereus scopulicola.
After that backberg commented on it as T. scopulicolus.
When genus Trichocereus was absorbed into Echinopsis they rightly went with the first to name it, and its now Echinopsis scopulicola.

Cool that the UK's indented areole scop is apparently a different clonal line than the aussie bellybutton scop, I didnt know that.
Funny that I got my exposed-areole scop (shown next to a PC [Here] (http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=1497.msg10450#msg10450)) from England.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on November 30, 2014, 02:44:09 am
I really want to get a hold of the indent areole and belly-button scop.  I think mine is the exposed areole clone, but who knows till it grows more. I got it too late in the season this summer for it to grow much and now it's dormant.  And on trout's site he shows several seed grown specimen that are spineless!  Where did they get the seeds?? I want them.  I've only found scop hybrids.  I actually have some scop hybrids going and they all have spines. Even when scop was the mother.   

Another trait I look for in genuine scopulicola is the baseball bat/club shape. Skinny at the bottom and getting fatter towards the top.

I think I have a prejudice for spined ones since I searched for so long for a spineless specimen. It really was a lot of trouble trying to find one. Until I asked SS for a scopulicola. I didn't ask for a spineless one, but the one they sent me barely had spines. The ironic part is it told my friend immediately that they had spineless ones knowing that he wanted one. He bought one from them and they sent him one with visible spines, which he already had.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on November 30, 2014, 06:44:24 pm
I'm not exactly sure which clone I have. I definitely want to get a hold of a spineless one now  ;D

The one I have came from an old-time grower in the area. He's been growing cacti from South America for 30+ years. Next time I see him I'll ask if he knows more history about his Scops.

It has very indented V-nothces, small spines, and the new growth looks very similar to PC pachanoi except for the fatness and top-view shape of the ribs.

Hcc
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Auxin on November 30, 2014, 07:58:13 pm
on trout's site he shows several seed grown specimen that are spineless!  Where did they get the seeds?? I want them.
I'm reasonably certain he was using the term loosely to indicate genetically distinct clonal lines, rather than meaning "This guy bob planted a seed and look what grew"
That aussie 'seed grown' has been circulating as clones in australia for at least a decade and I seem to recall it being cited as originally being an imported clone.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Greentoe on November 30, 2014, 08:08:08 pm
Quote
It has very indented V-nothces, small spines, and the new growth looks very similar to PC pachanoi except for the fatness and top-view shape of the ribs.

Any chance you can post a picture of the top view so I can see what you're talking about?
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on November 30, 2014, 09:31:49 pm
Thanks for the clarification Auxin.

I found a picture of a (supposed) seed grown Scopulicola on Wiki!!  It has spines at the lower portion. Which indicates to me that it actually is a seedling.   I wonder where this person got their seeds.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Auxin on November 30, 2014, 11:47:11 pm
I notice a pattern in your posts  ;)
So I'll mention another thing I noticed, Köehres Kakteen (http://www.koehres-kaktus.de/shop/advanced_search_result.php?MODsid=2g82hhsm79bld0q1v2gcghgd30&keywords=scopulicola&categorie_id=0&x=0&y=0) has them listed in their catalog.

Another side note, if a cactus looks like its in between pachanoi and scopulicola, investigate T. riomizquensis. I sometimes see purported scops that clearly lie closer to rios due to spine length.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on November 30, 2014, 11:53:08 pm
Okay, and wow, I can't believe they have T. scopulicola seeds listed.  I wonder if they're legit.  I've had ID problems from koehres before.  Thanks for pointing that out!!  I'll check out riomizquensis as well. Never heard of that one.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on December 01, 2014, 08:29:45 am
Speaking of scop seeds Sacred Succulents has T. scopulicolus on their list now.  Just found out. 
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: solaritea on June 15, 2015, 10:21:50 pm
I'll send a pack of about 20 Koehres scopulicola seeds to anyone for $1. I just created a post in the giveaways section. Details in that post.
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=2614.0
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: New Wisdom on June 15, 2015, 10:49:21 pm
I have some of those going now. I also got into contact with somebody who made some legit spineless scop x spineless scop seeds and have some of those going. I grafted a few of the seedlings and should have some new spineless scop clones going soon.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Shallen on November 20, 2015, 03:18:57 pm
so I'm guessing that I've got a pc pach then?
I have some of those going now. I also got into contact with somebody who made some legit spineless scop x spineless scop seeds and have some of those going. I grafted a few of the seedlings and should have some new spineless scop clones going soon.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on December 04, 2015, 03:04:35 pm
Hi Shallen,

That definitely has the PC look, but I wouldn't discount it quite yet. I'm quickly becoming aware of clones that "look PC" but are DEFINITELY not.

Can you provide any information on it's history? Like how you obtained it?

Peace,
Hcc
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: HulGil on December 04, 2015, 07:45:31 pm
I obtained this non-PC from Home Depot. The only reason I think it's non PC is because it's a very potent clone and has deep V-notches. Can someone confirm whether or not I'm correct?
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Frog Pajamas on December 04, 2015, 08:39:19 pm
Looks non-PC to me.  :)
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: husk on December 08, 2015, 12:44:47 pm
I always want to say non PC but am forever questioning it so lets have a look...

Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: husk on December 08, 2015, 12:48:25 pm
Two different clones, one in th e back that is more blue is the one I think has to be non PC with more confidence, to me the v notch is able to be seen but I would like other opinions.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: misplant on December 15, 2015, 07:15:44 pm
Quote
i would say both are non-pc
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: bezevo on February 14, 2016, 06:38:47 am
hi  I just bought two nice pups listed as ....

San Pedro Trichocereus Pachanoi  Monstrose  GRANDE 11"  x 2/1/2" pup 

no signs of Monstrose growth but could come later or with pups ?

so what do you think true Pachanoi ?

looks a lot different prom my PC  san pedro from homexdepot
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Chicsa on February 14, 2016, 12:50:04 pm
nice cuts those are real pachanois, cant say for sure which one, maybe altmans if it is monstrose it would be semi-monstrose which is common of that clone. does look a little different from altmans clone though.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on February 14, 2016, 07:03:50 pm
Those look like the Altman's.

From what I've gathered from other growers, there are 2 Altman's clones that look incredibly similar. One grows normally and never shows any monstrous growth.

The other one can do lots of rib changing, show monstrous growth, and terminate in a variety of ways. 1) normal termination 2) "butthole" looking termination 3) crest termination.

As far as what is pictured above, I'm not sure which of the 2 clones they are. Either way, both clones make for gorgeous plants that grow fast and in relatively large diameter.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: bezevo on February 14, 2016, 07:48:47 pm
HEY  Thank You ! Chicsa and Happyconcacti  for the INFO .

 I hope  that they grow fast and to a relatively large diameter , as Happyconcacti  says .

I Also hope they Grow in  a STRONG  Spiritual way . I will have to read up on  Altman's ?

They will sleep now till spring .

Sending all who offered advice some Good KARMA .
THX
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: bezevo on February 17, 2016, 04:47:22 am
I bought a cutting today I believe my be Trichocereus pachanoi   "Real" pachanoi  ?

WHAT DO YOU EXPERTS SAY ? Real ?

The cutting has more rounded ribs 7 .
It had just bloomed and the "HAIR" where it bloomed are almost black ?

 I believe  the hairs on a PC clone are white or light brown?

The cutting is from a ten foot cactus that was knocked down buy wind storm .

The cutting is "23 tip 7 ribs , below is a photo of cutting and another of the cactus blooming 10 days before storm.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: happyconcacti on February 17, 2016, 06:50:43 am
That is a "real" pachanoi, not PC  :D
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: bezevo on February 17, 2016, 05:05:40 pm
thanks happyconcacti. sending you good karma`
 the the seller  had some nice big middle cuts . but my budget was low so I just got the tip cut .

I wish I knew more about its origins , per haps I will send the seller a message .

UPDATE: I asked the seller a few questions they did not know much about the cactus just that it was over 20 years old and indeed the hair around the blooms are black.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: LoveAndTrust on July 13, 2016, 11:56:01 am
Amazing, just an amazing post OP. I remember researching this subject several years ago. I just came back to it recently, haha.
The pictures sure are helpful but I couldn't ever ID them before. The one Phrase
Take note of the saw shape of the ribs, the upward facing areoles, and the consistant length of the spines.
I was looking for something this concise when trying to tell the difference between a clone x infinity and something new.
Thank you, who wants the same exact clone when there's so much variety?
I'll be looking into sources if anyone wants to PM me. :) Thanks


Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: husk on July 18, 2016, 05:56:17 am

 so I just got the tip


Just the tip.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: bezevo on September 06, 2016, 06:38:38 pm
ha  yes just the  TIP  and the checks in the mail ha
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: bezevo on September 06, 2016, 06:45:38 pm
 .....!!!!!...ATTENTION...!!!!...  Checkout bellow LINK Super good link . GREAT Info !!



hey  NEW Wisdom you might want o review the info  in this esay on the PC issue  seems like  a very well thought out and researched essay .and possibly put link on your first post in this thread
see link .
http://trichocereus.net/the-pc-trichocereus-predominate-cultivar
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: bezevo on September 06, 2016, 07:54:27 pm
 oops double
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: rakeandbake on September 19, 2016, 03:22:49 am
I purchased my first two cacti for my collection and received them in the mail just a few days ago. I wouldn't mind having my pachanoi identified as well. The add specified they grew it from their own confirmed non-pc pachanoi. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Mangrove on September 19, 2016, 03:26:06 am
I purchased my first two cacti for my collection and received them in the mail just a few days ago. I wouldn't mind having my pachanoi identified as well. The add specified they grew it from their own confirmed non-pc pachanoi. What do you guys think?

I don't think that's a pachanoi... I do, however, think you got ripped off.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: rakeandbake on September 19, 2016, 03:36:58 am
That isn't what I wanted to hear at all. We live and learn I guess. Any ideas as to what it is? I have limited cacti/succulent experience (obviously) lol. I want to learn though of course. Thank you.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: rakeandbake on September 19, 2016, 03:49:04 am
Maybe another angle could help?
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Chicsa on September 19, 2016, 04:15:54 am
too young to really tell
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: husk on September 19, 2016, 05:16:09 am
too young to really tell

Agreed. In the first pic I wanted to call it a candle but the second pic made me think differently. Just give it some time and we will see.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Ian Morris on September 19, 2016, 07:01:10 am
give it a year of what your doing and have a look... good job so far
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: XDX on December 14, 2016, 01:59:06 am
theres a local herb shop near me, and as much as people love having a local herb shop, i as an herbalist, have never been impressed. some shady things going on, old bunk products, 5+ year old dust on everything, not knowledgeable about their products, overpriced, etc. anyway, ive known they sell cacti cuts, but have assumed them to be PC pachanoi, based on my own biased opinion of their business operation.
 luckily, my friend bought a cutting from them a few years ago, grew it out a bit, and gave me a cutting, so i didnt have to waste any money to investigate.
 im no cacti expert, i havent ever seen a confirmed PC to compare with, but i have grown several pachanoi and bridgesii, and a few peruvianus and werdermannianus from seeds. the cutting my friend gave me is much lighter shades of green, with super small uniform spines...looks nothing like my other trichs. i still think its a PC....

heres some pics. yes i know it is etoliating, and my apologies for the quality, thats as close as i can get with my camera and stay in focus. does this look like a PC to you guys?
thanks!
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: oplopanax on December 14, 2016, 11:22:56 pm
Looks pc to me, also get that guy in the sunshine!
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: XDX on December 15, 2016, 12:31:45 am
thanks, thats what i thought!
yeah idk what im doing with him right now... he started a lil bump of a root a couple months ago, so i put it in that lil pot on a heat mat under lights, but it stopped root growth and started shooting upwards all lankey-like. i was actually considering putting it in a shoe box in a cool closet till spring, see if that would coax the roots out. i get like 4 hours of overcast sunlight each day this time of year, and it was in about as bright of lighting i can provide indoors... still etoliated... my bulbs must be old or something.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: oplopanax on December 15, 2016, 09:37:43 pm
In general, I think that growing that genus under grow lights in the winter is a mistake and leads to etiolation.

I would just put it somewhere cool with no direct light and wait til spring to coax growth out of it.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: joemush on January 04, 2017, 05:00:49 am
Hello share the seeds community,

Im new here and am excited to be apart of this forum. I just purchased some cacti a few days ago and am wondering if they are non-PC. I have three alleged Pachanoi's, two of them are from the same nursery and are genetically identical. The other one is from a different nursery grown in the same conditions and looks genetically different then the first two. The first picture is of my recent cacti purchase as a bunch. The next two are a side and a top view of a cactus from one nursery and the last two are a side and a top view of a cactus from another nursery. I appreciate any opinions from the members. Thank you
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: oplopanax on January 04, 2017, 07:04:50 pm
Those look pc to me
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: cactusjames on June 12, 2017, 11:35:16 pm
Those look pc to me

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.

The bottom two photos of a cactus that was apparently bought from a separate nursery than the other trichos seems to show non-pc characteristics. It has V cuts over the areoles and the spines are longer than most PC pachanoi I've ever seen(including my own). Although the trichos in the other photos seem to have the same kind of spines....just without the V cut.
 I admit it doesn't look EXACTLY like what I would expect of non-pc...BUT...as we all know there are variations, especially in the non-pc "realm".
So my guess is you have a possible non-pc in the bottom 2 photos. Although, whatever they are(most likely a mix/hybrid of some kind) they are absolutely beautiful specimens in my opinion.

ENJOY!!!

*And can someone please explain to me(maybe in a PM) what the heck I have to do to earn some karma over here? I contribute too!...lol.*
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: misplant on June 18, 2017, 06:56:09 am
pc does not have woolly aeroles would be your first clue......
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: EIRN on June 27, 2017, 10:26:16 pm
Good article about the subject

https://trichocereus.net/the-pc-trichocereus-predominate-cultivar
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: objektform on July 05, 2017, 06:57:57 am
Hello all, I need help in IDing whether this is pachanoi! the flowers look the same. But would be great if someone with expertise could comment.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: EIRN on July 05, 2017, 02:11:07 pm
Hello all, I need help in IDing whether this is pachanoi! the flowers look the same. But would be great if someone with expertise could comment.

It is a nice Cereus. Maybe C. hildmaniannus
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: OfCows on May 11, 2018, 06:38:49 pm
 ;) Thanks to New Wisdom and everyone else who contributed advice here - I'm still trying to get my PC ID skills down, so this is genuinely helpful (as is the article on EG's site and also the one on Trout's site too)...
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: AcaciaAve on December 11, 2018, 02:10:14 am
What is the big one?

I bought it thinking it is maybe a landscape cultivar of Bridgesii
or a Pachanoi hybrid of some sort.

The only spines are an inch or so. Minimal.

There is a flower forming at the top.

Thanks for help with identification
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: solaritea on December 17, 2018, 06:35:35 pm
Identifying "PC" Pachanoi and "Real" Pachanoi

Things you wont see on PC pachanoi
You wont see long spines, "V" notches above the areoles, black hair on the flowers, glaucus blue color (correct me if I'm wrong) ect... (Will update with more research)

I’m seeing screen shots of the first post in this thread used to ID PC pachanoi.
I’ve seen long spines, v notches, black flower hairs (if shaded), and glaucus blue color on PC pachanoi.
Do ya’ll think the section I’ve quoted is still accurate? Should it be updated?

Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: elouicious on January 06, 2019, 08:54:04 pm
hello all, sorry if this is the wrong thread but I was hoping to get some help IDing some Trichocereus I never got the name of they are the two in small pots that each have two in the first picture (might be too young to id) and the multi branched one in the second picture.

thanks
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: EVENEVE on March 06, 2019, 10:49:36 am
ooohhh....they are beautiful....and have a resonance with me on a personal level.... like an old friend or familiar....as a child i had a monstrous Pachanoi at my backdoor an impressive giant in my yard and an incredible array of cacti and succulents growing all around.... it was magnificent sculptural and strange and alien to me as a three year old moving into the house from the rain forest.... there was no ridding bicycles and running madly in the yard......and im sad to say as the years went by the local boys would use the cacti as target practice for their home made lead ninja stars and shanghais with u nails.....and slug guns... i can remember the flowering and the scent filling the night air.... and the eventual removal of the spiky giants over the years.... till we eventually had a steel shed erected where a once magnificent Pachanoi stood.....it was a real shame..... however a relative did take away alot to his prorogation house so i hope it didn't end up lost forever.... i have only got fond distant memories now.... but this thread had bought them all back to the front of my mind......thankyou.... id love to hear anyone stories and information on this information on links and articles and pics.... and if anyone knows of where i might be able to get ahold of any chemovars and variations to propagate and preserve and share....xxxx thanks for the trip down memory lane....xxxx Catara
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: sealseekseeds on May 24, 2019, 09:07:33 pm
Sorry taht it maybe seems stupid but what do you mean with "PC"? Political correct pacha?





Content Edited
nobody
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Fontoking61777 on May 24, 2019, 10:02:40 pm
No meaning predominant cultivator but  please stop bringing  up drugs on this form this form is strictly for plant and seed propagation of legal plants only
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: Malak on July 08, 2019, 02:54:32 pm
Can anyone help I'd this cactus ???
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: AcaciaAve on July 09, 2019, 04:38:17 am
Update on my previous post
New pup is sprouting from base and it's definitely Bridgesii.
Guess it grew without spines.
The cactus now looks completely different than when I got it.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: ONandONandON on July 10, 2019, 04:44:41 am
Malak ID guess NEOCARDENASIA HERZOGIANA. Bolivian Baseball Bat Cactus

this one arrived yesterday, at first i thought it looks like a cool tricho,
now it looks like blue myrtle cacti with black spines, but still cool. 
(picture used from ebay listing, but it looks about the same)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/H9MAAOSw~Ndc5p3G/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: DreadedShaman on September 06, 2019, 03:59:08 am
So I've had my doubts that the cacti I've been collecting are non-pc,
However the newer buds (which have gotten a lot more water and sun vs past seasons) are showing signs such as the "V" and also some varied spine length.

Can anyone give me a better idea of what I'm seeing... Growing here lol.
I can provide more or better pics if needed.
Title: Re: Identifying Trichocereus pachanoi "PC" and "Real" pachanoi
Post by: flickedbic on October 04, 2020, 11:26:21 pm
Look like PC. 

Newer growth carries more v-notches in PC.  By the old growth however it seems evident to me.