Share The Seeds
Gardening Area => The Eco-Garden => Topic started by: Sunshine on July 13, 2013, 07:04:07 AM
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A friend told me that he was planning on using miracle grow to fertilize his plants. I started writing my reply to him explaining why he shouldn't and why he should grow using organic fertilizers and after around a half hour of writing later the pm started to take shape. I decided it to be forum worthy. So without further adieu, here it is(It has been added to over the past few days)-
I strongly urge you to NOT use miracle grow fertilizer. You should only use organic ferts.
A friend of mine got me to switch to growing with 100% organic ferts this year. Over the course of the past few months I have witnessed the difference first hand.
Organic gardening has many advantages. Along with increased yield and potency, it also comes with a strong sense of pride.
I like to think of it like this;
Plants you/I grow are like children. They deserve the best most natural food possible and rely on us to provide it. They cannot go out and get it themselves. It is up to us to give them the best possible sustenance we can provide.
Plants consuming miracle grow is akin to us eating an entire diet composed of generic alge fortified with processed protein and carbohydrates. Sure, it will keep them alive, but would you want that as your diet? HELL NO! It is NOT optimal in the least.
You want steak and green beans with butter, etc.!! haha!
Natural nutes like hydrolyzed fish, kelp, composted cow manure, worm castings, dried blood, crushed shells, and composed grass are the plant equivalent to our steak and veggies and miracle grow is the equivalent to our 'generic alge fortified with processed bullshit'.
See what I'm getting at?
Giving plants those things provides the micronutrients that they need, other than the big 3(P-K-N; Phosphorus-Potassium-Nitrogen)
Just as a pure diet of carbs, protein, and sugar, will only get us humans so far, the same is true for a plant on a PKN- only diet. We need macro nutes like iron, copper, and vitamins....and plants need them too.
Giving them things like the aforementioned organic nutrient mixtures will provide the right macronutrients they need to grow to their optimal potential. The result will be a bigger, faster growing, stronger, and more potent plant.
Hell, if I ate as good a diet as I feed my plants, I'd be running a 2 minute mile and benching 50x my own weight. hahah!
At first, organic gardening might seem like more work, more expensive, and overall not worth the time, effort and money. Once you get into it, it is not as bad as it appears. Most, if not all of the natural nutrient sources mentioned above can be made at home or acquired cheaply.
Composted grass is simple. If you take a bunch of grass clippings and amass them in a pile, then cover them with a black tarp(optional but optimal) and water ever few days with the hose. The heat will break it down into rich black soil. At the same time, not only will you be creating composted grass, you will also be providing a prime habitat for worms. The worms will feed from the bottom up and will excrete their castings providing even MORE nutrients to the mix.
Hydrolyzed fish is tricky to make(from what I've read), but it is very doable. Here is a link to a website that explains the entire process of making it from start to finish- http://gilcarandang.com/
Now lets move on to dried blood.
Dried blood is not something people usually have laying around. Unless you're a hunter, your going to have to buy this one. If you are a hunter, you're in luck! For all you need to do is drain the deer or what have you as usual. Instead of doing it on the ground, do it in a bucket. Spread it over a flat smooth surface if possible and let it dry in the sun. Once its dry scrape it up and spread it or mix it with your soil. This will provide a good amount of macronutrients such as iron and an assortment of salts.
If you like what I've written so far, hit the +1 karma button under my name. ;)
Peace
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Excellent post :)
I think I will try to implement these ideas, as I realize they are more sustainable; the analogy made a lot of sense to me.
Most of those items I think I can acquire without spending lots of $, so it is definitely worth a shot.
Does one need a composting machine, one of those rotating tubs?
Thanks for the great post.
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No, you don't need a composting machine. They definitely help though. If you have the money you can make one. But they are by no means necessary.
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Link to a nice story about non-gmo organic farming in India:
http://grist.org/food/miracle-grow-indian-farmers-smash-crop-yield-records-without-gmos/ (http://grist.org/food/miracle-grow-indian-farmers-smash-crop-yield-records-without-gmos/)
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I'll have to give this a try. Both of my brothers hunt so I'll ask them to save their wild animal blood for me. Any suggestions on what kind of quantities you should be shooting for? What would be the ideal concentration?
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Get as much blood as you can. It will dry to way less. Blood is 55% water. I would try to get at least 3-4 gallons of blood.
Once its dry use 1 cup of blood meal per 10 square feet of garden. All you need to do is spread it on the soil and water it in.
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Just leaving an interesting resource for organic users based in the US :)
Organic Plants, Seeds and Supplies Mail-Order Vendors (http://www.gardenlist.com/Organics.html)
Here you will find mail-order garden companies that specialize in providing organically grown plants and seeds, as well as supplies for the organic gardener. These companies are also listed under their areas of speciality, so you will find them in such categories as General, Vegetables, and Supplies.
Thanks for the thread,
Mandrake
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Do you have to dry the blood out or could you just water your plants with blood? Would it need to be watered down?
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I'm not sure. I have never heard of anyone using fresh blood.
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Blood like manure should never be used fresh, it will burn your plants. If you must add blood or manure to soil while still fresh you should allow it to mellow for at least a month before planting anything.
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I was reading yesterday that fresh blood will also attract bugs.
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That makes sense. I was just thinking about how strange it would look watering my plants with blood.
On the subject of manure, is there anything special you need to do to it or can I just pick up any old sun baked cow turd and its ready to go?
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Crushing it into a powder would make it easier to disperse it more evenly. Other than that, I would only spread it around adult nitrogen loving plants or adult plants displaying signs of nitrogen deficiency, not seedlings.
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This thread has been moved to the new Eco-Garden (http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?board=30.0) section :)
Kind regards,
Mandrake
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Very awesome thread! I only do organic and wouldn't have it any other way! Don't forget the one we produce for free all the time...pee! Mix it a 20:1 water to pee for cacti and such or mix at 5:1 or 3:1 for veggies and flowers. Works good if applied two to three times weekly as it is not that potent and won't burn if done correctly. Peace
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I almost exclusively follow organic growing in its non-dogmatic common sense form (ie. I dont import rare minerals strip-mined from peru or mongolia because its 'natural' despite being the same as a 'synthetic', etc. the way organic farms do).
My exception is Pereskiopsis grafts. I plant those in an organic mix and dump a continuous flow of miracle grow on them to get a year of phenomenal growth. I got gifted kilos of the stuff years back.
I have 2/3rds of an acre and everything produced here is recycled on-site. Except waste from the walnut tree, its strongly allelopathic (a herbicide). Beyond the walnut my yard and 1800 sq ft garden produces no waste. None. My garbage can is virtually empty every week, even in spring and fall ;D I collect all other tree leaves, etc. and guard them jealously.
My lawn tractor has mulching blades on, so it doesnt even produce any grass clippings except what accumulates on top of the blade deck and I layer that into manure that needs more aging.
I have a few tracts where I let the weeds grow until flowering to produce that much more compost, also weeds get lacto-fermented in a bucket to make concentrated organic fertilizer to mix with pee. Weeds usually have deep roots, they harvest the minerals in the subsoil where many vegetables cant effectively feed, those minerals end up in the leaves. (This also makes edible weeds very nutritious as food).
Pee is great ferts, but I live in a hot region and thus need to eat salt in the summer so in the summer I dont collect any pee from dinner time until the next morning. The rest of the year I use my pee ferts as a good excuse to follow a very low salt diet. (Become familiar with the symptoms of hyponatremia if you attempt to go low salt in summer)
Composting grass alone was mentioned above. Grass has lots of protein. Mix some high carbon stuff in there to keep it from stinking. A bit of garden soil added will give it the capacity to convert ammonia gas to nitrates, as well.
You want steak and green beans with butter, etc.!! haha!
Too much of a lopsided nutrient feed can hurt plants just like that diet causes heart disease and impotence in people :P
Keep both diets a bit more balanced ;)
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If you go out in the woods away from all your plants and pour walnut husk laced water onto the soil worms will come out of the ground like crazy. I seen a youtube video where a guy did it. Worked like a charm. That would make a quick easy way to get worms for a worm bin.
Thanks for your outstanding addition to the thread. It is much appreciated. +1 :)
I recently broke my "no synthetic nutes" streak and bought some sphagnum moss/peat mix that contained artificial nutrients. I was desperate for some fluffy sphagnum moss and that was all I could find.
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I'm on board with all aspects of organic growing - except the blood. No can do. I have literally BOXES and boxes of horse poo (there are more horses than people in my neighborhood) and my wife and I compost our spent flowers, veggies, banana and other fruit peels, avocado skins, etc., etc. The notion of animal blood though, is not very tasteful to me personally. You would laugh out loud if you knew what I used to do for a living!
S.L.
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I think throwing the blood away and not using it is more distasteful than putting it to good use. Know what I mean?
If you kill an animal, you should use all the parts. Most hunters just let it drain onto the ground.
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I'm a long-time, actively practicing Buddhist. I don't kill anything (intentionally).
S.L.
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What do you eat then?
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:D
I'm also buddhist, and a vegetarian one.
Vegetarians eat plants... lots of plants ;)
If someone avoids refined sugars and refined fats, and gets enough calories, adequate protein and essential amino acids is basically guaranteed (exceptions being truly obscure, like basing a diet entirely on african yams or tapioca roots). Plants are also better sources of most vitamins than animals are. B12 is the only thing whole food vegetarians with a diverse diet need to be concerned with.
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Pizza, pasta, veggies, egg whites, peanut butter, fruit, mac and cheese...you name it. Just no meat. Occasionally when it is unavoidable, I will eat chicken, shrimp or fish so as to not insult a host.
S.L.
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I presume you do not eat meat because of the deplorable conditions livestock is kept?
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A bit off topic but; not all Buddhists are vegetarians. Once or twice a month we make a pork soup for the monks at the local temple and they love it. Tried without the pork but they complained a bit, not vocally but in the silent way that monks do.
Bacon is the very reason why i could never be a vegetarian, unless im in India. :)
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I presume you do not eat meat because of the deplorable conditions livestock is kept?
Again, OT...but I'll give a quick answer so we can move back on-topic. That factors in, but is only part of the reason. Buddhists voluntarily pledge to avoid intentional killing and seek to minimize suffering. I can survive and be well-nourished without the need for killing any animal, which is considered a non-virtuous action with negative karmic implications.
S.L.
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Another off topic but...I must kill snails and stink bugs to ensure they don't ruin my plants. I walk around and smash snails unfortunately almost every day. I love snails as they are cool creatures but they eat way too many seedlings and other plants. I feel I'm hurting my karma by doing this but it is the easiest most effective way to lower numbers of them right off. The population of them in my yard is immense. I hate killing them and I consciously say sorry before killing most of them. I have bad karma as is because I was a bad kid lol and I feel its extra weighing on me due to me knowing in the moment I was either doing or encouraging bad things and that I shouldn't do this...I want this to change though. I make conscious effort to avoid bad things and thoughts now
but I still kill snails needlessly other than for my plants protection. Any thoughts?
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Another off topic but...I must kill snails and stink bugs to ensure they don't ruin my plants. I walk around and smash snails unfortunately almost every day. I love snails as they are cool creatures but they eat way too many seedlings and other plants. I feel I'm hurting my karma by doing this but it is the easiest most effective way to lower numbers of them right off. The population of them in my yard is immense. I hate killing them and I consciously say sorry before killing most of them. I have bad karma as is because I was a bad kid lol and I feel its extra weighing on me due to me knowing in the moment I was either doing or encouraging bad things and that I shouldn't do this...I want this to change though. I make conscious effort to avoid bad things and thoughts now
but I still kill snails needlessly other than for my plants protection. Any thoughts?
If our subconscious accepts metaphors (and it seems it does) karma should accept small balancing acts. Or at least, your own perception of karma as you understand it. If tossing snails away instead of killing them is not an option, I would start a little terrarium for snails, to make up for the other side of your relationship with them. Feed them, take care of them, eventually release them somewhere else.
Something similar happened to me after feeding little mice to my corn snake. I often felt horrible, and one day I decided to keep one of them alive. I bought him a little house with a wheel and everything, food and comfy wood shavings. But he died before a week, for unknown reasons. I took it as a reassuring pat in the back from karma, and kept feeding mice to my corn snake.
Still feels bad, though.
[/offtopic]
Mandrake
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Another off topic but...I must kill snails and stink bugs to ensure they don't ruin my plants. I walk around and smash snails unfortunately almost every day. I love snails as they are cool creatures but they eat way too many seedlings and other plants. I feel I'm hurting my karma by doing this but it is the easiest most effective way to lower numbers of them right off. The population of them in my yard is immense. I hate killing them and I consciously say sorry before killing most of them. I have bad karma as is because I was a bad kid lol and I feel its extra weighing on me due to me knowing in the moment I was either doing or encouraging bad things and that I shouldn't do this...I want this to change though. I make conscious effort to avoid bad things and thoughts now
but I still kill snails needlessly other than for my plants protection. Any thoughts?
If our subconscious accepts metaphors (and it seems it does) karma should accept small balancing acts. Or at least, your own perception of karma as you understand it. If tossing snails away instead of killing them is not an option, I would start a little terrarium for snails, to make up for the other side of your relationship with them. Feed them, take care of them, eventually release them somewhere else.
Something similar happened to me after feeding little mice to my corn snake. I often felt horrible, and one day I decided to keep one of them alive. I bought him a little house with a wheel and everything, food and comfy wood shavings. But he died before a week, for unknown reasons. I took it as a reassuring pat in the back from karma, and kept feeding mice to my corn snake.
Still feels bad, though.
[/offtopic]
Mandrake
Wow, great idea! Ive never thought of that, and often feel bad for injuring any being, including garden pests
However, i think i can share an effective way to avoid directly killing garden pests.
Encourage a natural predator-prey relationship and food chain.
By this, i mean plant specific flowers/ plants that attract insects such as wasps, ladybugs, etc to your place of gardening, acting as a predator to the pests. This goes a long way, as it inevitably (although it may take time) attracts many different stages of the food chain, as most everything has a natural predator.
Hope this helps :)
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Chickens and ducks eat snails iirc.
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Not sure about snails... but they do eat slugs. At least the ducks do.. Maybe my chicken are picky, but they aren't too keen on slugs. Though, occasionally they will eat them.
I relocate pests or give them to the ducks/chickens if they're around. It still makes me feel guilty for throwing them on the ground to be eaten.. but I figure they sort of have a chance.. sometimes the birds aren't interested or paying attention... and if they do get eaten, then it's helping my chicken live.
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I've heard a few times before that slugs and snails love the smell of beer so much that if you leave a plate of it out in your garden they will climb onto it, become drunk and drown, effectively resolving pest issues without chemical pesticides or squishing them with your feet... but I have never had issues with snails or slugs so I've never had the chance to test that out personally... also idk if it would be good to then feed those to ducks/chickens...
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i find it works best to use a cup (i use a dixie cup) that is buried to the point to where a snail could easily climb into it.
works wonders, many cups had a surprising amount of snails in them.
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A band of copper will keep them off your plants, or away from whatever you want forever.
Most slugs snails cant cross as it if its more than about 1cm wide, as its makes like a battery when they try.
Instant Electrolysis.
As soon as they touch it they just curl up instantly, then the come out in a minute or so, and cruise the other way unharmed.
I knew a French lady that "farmed" them in the city years ago as a protein source and its how she kept them in.
Cheap, sustainable and provided you purge them on bran diet for a week before harvest they are quite ok with white wine and garlic sauce....
No worse than mussels or clams.
If you have raised beds just a band around the base is enough to keep them off, and copper lasts for years and years, so its a good investment.
Doesn't work 100% well in really hot dry weather(no snails then anyway) but in humidity its awesome.
Next time you see a construction site raid the bins for water pipe and hammer it flat, wrap it around the base or the beds, tables/bench legs, put a strip across the ground leading into the greenhouse or whatever.
Or buy it, but there is heaps of waste in construction and I'm too tight to buy stuff like that.
Cheap and 99% effective.
And no bad karma, which is a bonus! (provided you don't eat them that is)