Share The Seeds
Gardening Area => Plant Propagation => Topic started by: nobody on June 14, 2013, 04:25:04 AM
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Here is a link to a nice little site about Pereskiopsis spathulata. Has a lot of good info about general propagation and grafting.
www.pereskiopsis.com (http://www.pereskiopsis.com)
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Great resource!
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Yay! I love peres and grafting.
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Roots on baby pere cuttings
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Thank you for this great find! I just bought a half dozen cuttings and this information will insure I get them off to a great start upon receipt!
S.L.
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Experiment: indole-3-butyric acid rooting hormone
12 pereskiopsis (species name unknown, probably not spathulata) treated with 0.1% indole-3-butyric acid in the following manner:
basal leaves removed, base dipped in water, then dipped in 0.1% indole-3-butyric acid, then excess acid tapped/shaken off.
9 pereskiopsis planted without indole-3-butyric acid.
Soil mixture:
9 parts all purpose potting soil (vigiro potting mix, 6 mo. Feeding)
2 parts per lite
1 part vermiculite
1 part worm castings
2 Tablespoons gardening lime
All Peres were potted approximately 1" (2.5cm) into the soil.
All were watered thoroughly then placed in propagation tank.
General observations:
Of the 21 pereskiopsis, there were in varying states of health: from leaves completely yellow and wrinkled to very green and healthy. I tried to put some of each "state of health" in each experimental group.
Results and discussion:
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=259.msg6297#msg6297
Picture:
(9/12) indole-3-butyric acid treated on the left
(9/9) untreated on the right
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Cool happyconcafe. I've noticed that they root in prettymuch the same ammount of time with or without a rooting hormone. These plants are probably the easiest in the world to root. Glad to see somebody documenting it though.
Let us know what happens.
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I'm betting that it naturally contains a lot of IBA.^
Personally I've never had trouble rooting them without using IBA. But I am curious to see if it helps.
+1 for a cool experiment. If we keep doing stuff like this STS is going to blossom into an awesome knowledge base.
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Update on the indole-3-butyric experiment:
(10/12) treated with hormone are showing signs of growth
(7/9) untreated are showing signs of growth
On another note:
When I was potting the Peres, I knocked off a 1" (2.5 cm) branch of one of the Peres (see picture below). I thought maybe it was too small to propagate. It had a few leaves still. I treated it with hormone and potted it. It is showing signs of growth. Moral of the story: it appears (from a sample of one) that Peres can propagate from very small cuttings/stems.
Why is this potentially significant? Well if they can propagate from 1" cuttings and you have say 6x 6" cuttings you could potentially propagate 36 Peres instead of 6.
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I've done this before without any hormones. It will be way better for you to grow the bigger sections. When you make 1" cuttings with them the pups they grow are tiny, weak, thin and not suited for grafting. It would take away from the point of having the pereskiopsis in my opinion. Plus it would take them a couple months just to grow an inch since they wouldn't have any room to photosynthesize. And you'd probably have to wait about 6-12 months for them to get to a thickness that you can graft on. Anyways in 6 months with just 1 6" cutting you could end up with 30. So you're best option will be to stick with the big cuttings. You will be happy later on when you have nice thick pere stock for grafting.
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Anyways in 6 months with just 1 6" cutting you could end up with 30.
How?
Also, I'd absolutely love to see evidence that supports the claims above. Would definitely save me the trouble of an experiment.
Evidence:
Kada, from kadasgarden, appears to use short stalks (2"-3") for propagation (no mention of growth rates or potential drawbacks):
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8200828
A different (2"-3") recommendation, also states that 1" cuttings take much longer:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17994848
"6 inches seems to be the golden length... it prevents excessive pupping and give a nice boost to the growth."
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17561995#17561995
Regards,
Hcc
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When Growing outside in the full sun in propper condition it can grow an inch in a week. When making cuttings and planting them you will get exponetial growth. I've done this before and that's why I said it. There's no documentation for it but I can explain the math.
Start with 1 6" plant. Grow for 6 weeks now you have a 12" cutting.
Cut in half, 2 6" plants, Grow for another 6 weeks and now you have 2 12" (or maybe shorter like 10") cuttings
Cut those in half and now you have 4 plants. Grow for 6 weeks.
Cut those in half and now you have 8 plants. Grow for 6 weeks.
Cut those in half. Now you have 16 plants. Grow for six weeks.
Cut those in half, now you have 32 plants.
All in 7.5 months you went from 1 to 32 cuttings. They may not all be 6" but they will be around 4"-6" if the growth conditions were right. The time frames aren't exact on this and there's a lot of factors involved that could make it go slower or faster, but this is the basic idea of how what i'm talking about works.
These plants grow like weeds. You will see what i mean in the coming months
And I was just giving my opinion about what works best if you want good grafting stock based on my experience. I don't mean to chalange any ideas that you have. I've just used the short pieces for propagation in the past and they've always grown extremely slow and very skinny. You will see what i mean when that one starts to grow. Compare it to a full 6" cutting and the 6" cutting will probably grow 10x faster than the short one and will be thicker.
(Edited the math on this. It was not 64 cuttings it was 32) Add just another 6 weeks onto it though and you double that up to 64. So it would be 9 months ffor 64 plants and 7.5 months for 32 plants.
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^^^Awesome! Another stellar post from New Wisdom!^^^
I also found a few sources above that completely agree with what you said. It seems that growth rates are greatly inhibited with cuttings shorter than 6".
Thank you NW!
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It is interesting though to grow plants from small cuttings like this. Another thing I have been doing is taking center cuts and laying them down flat. They usually sprout 2-4 pups if they're a good length and then root all along the bottom. But just like with any cacti, the more pups that are growing, the slower the growth will be on each one.
My main prefference is growing a 6" top cutting upright above all. All experimentation aside.
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I have just bought some P. spathulata. Only had them a couple of days but they do no seem happy - in fact they seem to be wilting rather. Not all plants can take the heat of a Spanish summer.
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They are tropical plants. They love tons of water and they don't take to extreme sun very well.
To go back on what I said earlier in this thread, they do not grow better in full sun, they grow very slow in full sun actually. The plants I have inside under fluorescent lights grow WAY faster than my outdoor plants.
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I'm having trouble with some of my Peres.
I have quite a few of em in individual pots and they're doing great. Big and Happy.
About 2 feet away, I have a single large pot that has 6 Peres in it. These seem very sad. The leaves keep turning red before they mature, shrivel up, and then fall off. All of the Peres are outdoors for now, in a pretty shady area.
Any suggestions?
I'm kind of surprised because all of the Peres are in nearly the same conditions except the style of pot. Do they need to be potted individually? Do they "attack" each other? Is something else going on? Too much light?
Maybe there's just an hour or two more of light on the big pot?
I didn't see any bugs on the sad ones.
Many thanks,
Hcc
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How large of a pot is that? I'd imagine the pot with 6 pere in it is larger than the ones with only one each? Sounds like it's either rootbound or lack of nutrients, both as a result of too many in not enough space... so your solution would either be to fertilize or to transplant the group into a larger pot or something of the sort.
You would have to measure the different areas you have your pere to see if the amount of light over the course of the day is any different, it could have something to do with it too.
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Do they need to be potted individually? Do they "attack" each other?
I too would like to know the answer to this.^^
I have around 10 pere's in my garden which I need to dig up and bring indoors because of winter and I'd like to try and conserve as much space as possible. I hope they can be potted together without ill effects.
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Okay. So here's my experience.
Pereskiopsis don't have a lot of root mass, but they like to stretch their roots out a lot. I've recently began to prefer to put multiple in big pots because they grow way faster and are healthier when they have the extra leg space, so no, multiple pereskiopsis in a large pot is no problem.
Although, I have had masses of them in the same conditions in individual pots where most are doing amazing, but a few of them are barely alive. I'm not sure exactly why, but when I take those out of the pots vs. the healthy ones, one aspect is always the same. The root systems on the unhealthy ones are very weak and undeveloped. I'm not sure the cause, but you may want to give those pereskiopsis a nice root serum to stimulate their root systems. Healthy roots = healthy plant.
So no, the big pot with multiple peres isn't the issue. They actually do way better for me in big pots grouped together than in smaller individual pots. I get faster graft growth and more flowers on the scions and with no grafts I get a WAY faster growth rate for the peres. I can't say for sure what the problem is though, but you may want to do something to jump-start that root system!
New Wisdom
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Whats your experience with individual plants in varying pot sizes.
Last fall I planted a bunch in those 6 cm square starter pots and quite a few in 9 cm square pots, kept them in the same trays and gave them liberal ferts. The larger pots made larger grafted trich stems (not sure if it was larger trich mass per square foot, but I'm only concerned about individual specimen performance.)
Will it benefit individuals at all to go beyond that size for the most cherished grafts?
I've been eyeballing my stacks of those tall round 6" pots, lol
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I always pot them individually in small planters (3 inch grow bags) and then replant into 6 or 8 inch pots after the graft is about a month or two old. Add a bit of trichoderma and add a ton of nitrogen rich ferts. Normally I get to three year old size in 10 months or so.
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I start off all my grafts in small 3-4" pots. Then my most prized grafts go into big 12" pots (5-6 pereskiopsis per pot) and they flower like mad (globulars.) The columnar grafts are usually 2-3x the girth of smaller individual potted grafts. The growth rate increases 2-4x after a brief period (1-6 weeks) of slow scion growth while the stock is rooting.
I have done bigger individual pots, but I haven't noticed any difference between a big pot with one and a big pot with several. You save more space when you group them, and each one gets more room to spread it's legs. Like I said before, they spread out a ton, but they don't have a huge root ball. It's mostly just long fat roots with lots of feeders rather than a big old ball of roots like Salvia divinorum.
New Wisdom
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Should I let the ends callous before trying to root cuttings like on normal cacti ? ?
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I did some dry (normal cacti callous) and some wet and Pereskiopsis rooted easily with each.
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I just put them directly into wet soil. They don't need to callous.
I like to wet the soil, use a pen to make the holes, put the pereskiopsis in like plugs, and wait a week or two. If the soil gets bone dry, i'll water them.
100% success rate :)
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I did most of mine un-calloused with rooting hormone, put into Dry soil for 1 day and then made moist, inside a humidity dome.
They seem to have perked up already (less than 2 days) !
Anyone ever eaten the leaves ? according to the article they are eatable
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I have rooted and grown several cuttings from single leaves. Takes a long time.