Share The Seeds
Gardening Area => Advanced Cultivation Techniques => Topic started by: Radium on May 23, 2016, 02:50:40 PM
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Still I can't believe it!
Last year these Cactis were fed LOTS of straight urine (not diluted), and it was clear of any drug metabolites.
But no such effect was observed.
This year however, the same Cactis were fed the same urine, only once up to now, but the urine was containing Ritalin metabolites.
And the effect was several pups shooting everywhere.
And everyday there's more of them!!
Looks like Radium's urine have become magical.
Want some bottles? 8)
Each photo is of a different pot,
And all the mother stems are small and pretty young.
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Radium Radium Radium.... your anal antics never seas to amaize me... How long have you been taking ritalin for at the time of noticing results? How long & how often were you pissing on your cacti before you started taking ritalin, and how long after pissing on cacti w/ritalin urine did you notice results? I would also like to know how often you take ritalin (amongst ALL OTHER psychoactive substances you ingest on a regular basis--something tells me this isn't the only trick up your sleeve.), what daily dose of ritalin, among other substances, do you currently take (in mg, that is, if you do indeed take it daily), how long how you have been watering your trichos with this drug-rich-piss for, and if you could post for us some before ritalin and after ritalin pics for evidence that it works. P.S. if ritalin was only occasionally used or if trichs were raised under differing physical conditions, these results would be invalid.
Also, I'm curious to know how watering cacti with acidic liquids could alter their biochemistry/growth rate/pup rate/ etc. compared to how most human beings water our cacti (rain & waste-water from our AC drips). Another thing is that I am wondering why you are assuming ritalin, and not time nor lighting nor act of fate/santajesusgod nor some other drug/hormone has been causing this up-tick in pups. Again, we cannot be entirely certain about this unless MORE of us get put on daily doses of ritalin and/or other cocaine derivatives (perhaps daily coca leaf/tea consumption to compete w/ritalin group) and ABSTAIN from ingesting other drugs (e.g. cannabis, amphetamine, 2C-X, LS-X, modafinil, 'molly', Benzos, DMT, B-vitamins, GHB, keratin, etc.) while we continuously (or at least once daily) urinate all over our freshly-potted/rooted trich log cuttings (not tip) and do so until they start pupping, at which point the quantity, color, growth rate and shape of said pups will be collected and organized and analyzed in order to ensure that ritalin and its many metabolites alone are indeed effective at promoting pupping/pup growth of said cacti. Natually, we should also compare this against cacti log cuttings which are NOT peed on once per day (or at the very least given distilled water), have Frog run some stats for us, and see how great this potential difference really is (or if it even exists).
Logically, I'd assert that a larger sample size is in order, perhaps with more members taking different kinds of drugs on a regular basis peeing on fresh cacti cuttings just to see which drug metabolites are the best for promoting the highest average rate of pupping possible with respect to time from planting/rooting till pupping. Unfortunately, I do not take methylphenidate on a regular basis, so, unless I can swindle my shrink into getting me back onto that disgusting drug, idk if I could be of much service in testing this hypothesis...
HOWEVER...
I do take modafinil on a daily basis, and, when it so happens I may chance upon a stem cutting of a tricho, I too will start urinating on it on a regular basis (after it roots and possibility of rot is minimal) just to see if this stimulant-enriched-urine hypothesis of yours proves true; I encourage as many other stimulant-taking members who are as willing/crazy as us scientists are to join in on the fun and start feeding un-pupped cacti stimulant-enriched urine. I have a funky feeling we could be on the verge of a new era of plant-piss science; perhaps peeing on plants with psychostimulant-enriched urine is the fertilizer/growth hormone of the future...
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Careful guys. As per the rules discussion of consumption of scheduled compounds is illegal, save historical accounts. (This includes legally perscribed medications)
Besides that, this could encourage people to either use their meds on their plants or use someone elses.
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This thread is walking a fine line along our rules, frankly a bit too close if you ask me. It's an intriguing idea to think about, did the metabolites cause the growth? Maybe, but like Mangrove said there are many variables unaccounted for. I do not believe more testing on this idea should be encouraged. Even if it's a prescription from a doctor, there may be other unwanted side effects that the plant may experience from receiving metabolites of Ritalin. If humans can get unwanted side effects from prescriptions their doctor gave them, perhaps so too could plants from Rx metabolites.
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I suspect the cacti were just ready to pup, pee and metabolites aside.
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Careful guys. As per the rules discussion of consumption of scheduled compounds is illegal, save historical accounts. (This includes legally perscribed medications)
Besides that, this could encourage people to either use their meds on their plants or use someone elses.
I'm really sorry,
I thought legally prescribed meds are OK to discuss.
Will never repeat this mistake.
I was just so excited
Sorry guys
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I suspect the cacti were just ready to pup, pee and metabolites aside.
There are 30 Peruvian Torch pots, from 3-4 vendors, most of them cut from different mother plants.
They were cut and rooted last year, and none are taller than 20cm and thicker than 5cm yet.
And they are just resuming growth after a harsh winter which killed one of them and weakened (shrank and slightly yellowed) the rest of the party.
The interesting thing is ALL of them are shooting pups (honestly, it happened to 7-8 of them yet, but everyday someone new shows up a pup, and I'm sure all of them will eventually reveal their cute cuddly pups to Radium over the next week)
Interesting stuff:
None of the San Pedros are growing pups (their pot material, watering, light, soil, and urine are identical to Torches')
Aside from this topic, I've become very curious about this:
The result of feeding various chems to various plants, and observing their metabolites.
Yeah yeah I know, it's partly predictable based on the plant's biosynthesis routes.
But plants are famous for surprising the researchers.
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Just remember to be sure to only post things that are within the Rules of this forum, you may also want to review the FAQ. :P
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Radium Radium Radium.... your anal antics never seas to amaize me... How long have you been taking ritalin for at the time of noticing results? How long & how often were you pissing on your cacti before you started taking ritalin, and how long after pissing on cacti w/ritalin urine did you notice results? I would also like to know how often you take ritalin (amongst ALL OTHER psychoactive substances you ingest on a regular basis--something tells me this isn't the only trick up your sleeve.), what daily dose of ritalin, among other substances, do you currently take (in mg, that is, if you do indeed take it daily), how long how you have been watering your trichos with this drug-rich-piss for, and if you could post for us some before ritalin and after ritalin pics for evidence that it works. P.S. if ritalin was only occasionally used or if trichs were raised under differing physical conditions, these results would be invalid.
Also, I'm curious to know how watering cacti with acidic liquids could alter their biochemistry/growth rate/pup rate/ etc. compared to how most human beings water our cacti (rain & waste-water from our AC drips). Another thing is that I am wondering why you are assuming ritalin, and not time nor lighting nor act of fate/santajesusgod nor some other drug/hormone has been causing this up-tick in pups. Again, we cannot be entirely certain about this unless MORE of us get put on daily doses of ritalin and/or other cocaine derivatives (perhaps daily coca leaf/tea consumption to compete w/ritalin group) and ABSTAIN from ingesting other drugs (e.g. cannabis, amphetamine, 2C-X, LS-X, modafinil, 'molly', Benzos, DMT, B-vitamins, GHB, keratin, etc.) while we continuously (or at least once daily) urinate all over our freshly-potted/rooted trich log cuttings (not tip) and do so until they start pupping, at which point the quantity, color, growth rate and shape of said pups will be collected and organized and analyzed in order to ensure that ritalin and its many metabolites alone are indeed effective at promoting pupping/pup growth of said cacti. Natually, we should also compare this against cacti log cuttings which are NOT peed on once per day (or at the very least given distilled water), have Frog run some stats for us, and see how great this potential difference really is (or if it even exists).
Logically, I'd assert that a larger sample size is in order, perhaps with more members taking different kinds of drugs on a regular basis peeing on fresh cacti cuttings just to see which drug metabolites are the best for promoting the highest average rate of pupping possible with respect to time from planting/rooting till pupping. Unfortunately, I do not take methylphenidate on a regular basis, so, unless I can swindle my shrink into getting me back onto that disgusting drug, idk if I could be of much service in testing this hypothesis...
HOWEVER...
I do take modafinil on a daily basis, and, when it so happens I may chance upon a stem cutting of a tricho, I too will start urinating on it on a regular basis (after it roots and possibility of rot is minimal) just to see if this stimulant-enriched-urine hypothesis of yours proves true; I encourage as many other stimulant-taking members who are as willing/crazy as us scientists are to join in on the fun and start feeding un-pupped cacti stimulant-enriched urine. I have a funky feeling we could be on the verge of a new era of plant-piss science; perhaps peeing on plants with psychostimulant-enriched urine is the fertilizer/growth hormone of the future...
Mangrove,
You point to sound points (or what you point to sounds sound hehe)
But even a series of gross experiments will reveal us some truth.
Before I tell more, let me refer you to here for the chemical structure of methylphenidate and it's relationship with other drugs (it's not cousins with cocaine at all, but actually a meth sidekick sporting a mullet and wide-sleeved jeans):
http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=3857.0 (http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?topic=3857.0)
About volunteer user experiments (I am not recommending it in any way, just explaining my thoughts on the results validity of such methods)
Regardless of all the chems they're taking regularly,
IF they recently added Ritalin to their drug regiment,
AND IF they previously had tried their Ritalin-less urine already,
They can give the new Ritalin-containing urine a shot,
And if the plants begin to pup, it can be attributed to Ritalin (but still it will not be clear if Ritalin is able to induce pups alone, or if it only works when other meds are accompanying it)
As I already explained,
Last year (during summer) I fed them pure urine (aged for 1 week before using) about 7-8 times, every other week,
and I was pouring it over the plants' tips, and made sure all of their surface was covered with urine.
Not even a single pup...
This year I did the exact same thing,
the only difference being taking Ritalin (50mg/d), and applying urine only once so far (about 2 weeks ago).
And the first pup began to show after 1 week.
BTW
Last summer I was on 300mg/d bupropion, and also a brief period of 200mg/d (max) Ultracet (both legally prescribed by registered medical professionals)
Bupropion for ADD,
Ultracet for an injury
Ritalin for ADD
I also have a thing for HOT!!! chilly pepper sauce and garlic (was eating these in same amounts last summer as well)
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Besides that, this could encourage people to either use their meds on their plants or use someone elses.
But what I described isn't about methylphenidate itself.
Only 1% of methylphenidate reaches into urine unchanged.
The relation between the med and the pups can only be attributed to its human metabolite(s) and the med's other possible effects on my urine profile.
So giving the straight med to the plants is a totally different story.
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BTW I'm afraid that the plants begin to shoot more than 2 pups, and become unable to pump nutrients to all of them.
Then I will be forced to trim extra pups against my will :(
Is it possible to root pups as small as 2cm?
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All my plants were fed with the urine,
If I had one which wasn't, I would liked to evaporate the urine, and then redissolve the solid residue in water and feed it to it, and compare the result.
If it worked, I would attempted to prepare some urine powder, and offer it as a giveaway.
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A glimpse of some of these guys (photo was took 1 month ago).
But not all of them are present in the photo.
Note the burn marks on the Pedros, I did it using a hot knife (even sticking the knife completely across one of the ribs), to see if they get a deeper colour, and that worked!
I would like to try sticking the red hot knife deep into its spine all the way to the other side this time, and see if it can recover out of this too or not.
I also once cut the upper half of a Pedro using a red hot knife, the heat seals the wound instantly, and it began to shoot roots like normal.
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This powerpoint could be useful in discussinhg ritalin metabolombics (there are over 415 metabolites of ritalin discovered in rats given the drug). (http://www.nationalacademies.org/hmd/~/media/388A510BA189480E9A6B40D6F0945F9D.ashx)
"Before I tell more, let me refer you to here for the chemical structure of methylphenidate and it's relationship with other drugs (it's not cousins with cocaine at all, but actually a meth sidekick sporting a mullet and wide-sleeved jeans):"
This presentation asserts that methylphenidate is indeed a cousin of cocaine in terms of psychoactive effects, as well as the fact that they both work throught the same mechanism of action; the main difference is that methylphenidate is often taken orally, whereas cocaine is usually snorted or smoked, which thus causes a more intense "rush" than when taken orally; the 3d structural representations show striking IRL structural similarities between both. (http://www.slideshare.net/aklia/r-i-t-a-l-i-n-v-s-c-o-c-a-i-n-e)
If you have the time, I would also highly suggest reading through this excellent document on the nature of cocaine as well as its analogues/derivatives, among which methylphenidate proved to be one of the most profitable analogues; If you dig around, you'll see that ADD-family stims have similar effects, but are often derived from phenylethylamine structures; however, there are a few meds out there that are derived from cocaine another potent triuptake inhibitor. All in all, it's a good read and a treasure trove of info on cocaine, devived drugs, methylphenidate included. (https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/cocaineanalogs.pdf)
This edition of the PDR states that a large portion of the drug is metabolised , the major metabolite being ritalinic acid (essentially one of the CYP450 enzymes cleaves the ester/ether (one of those two functional groups) into a carboxylic acid group, screwing up its BBB permeability.) Ritalinic acid is the major metabolite of methylphenidate and may just have potential as plant food, or as a way of acidifying basic soil to the optimal PH; what we should really be looking at is how ritalinic acid affects pup growth/formation on logs of trichs; considering Radium's positive results, it may be interesting to conduct experiments with this major metabolite to see if it could be used to promote faster pup generation/growth on trichs. (http://www.pdr.net/drug-summary/Ritalin-LA-methylphenidate-hydrochloride-1003)
Also, For my final point: methylphenidate is a derivative of cocaine and has a very similar 3D shape,; in layman's terms, their mechanisms of action are almost the same; ritalin just lasts longer and has a higher oral BA/ and lower abuse potential than its cousin cocaine. I am interested to see if psychostimulants, or at least psychostimulant metabolites, could be used to 'speed up' the rate of pupping...
Mods, if this post defies any rules, please delete it; I hope some of you find this info useful.
Selah.
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Many chemicals have effects on plants. Melatonin shows some growth rate increase and increased resistance to stress if I remember reading the paper correctly. Estrogen appears to induce flowering in some plants, caffeine is a mutagen and the list goes on. I doubt the correlation of ritalin in the urine is the causation of the pups although not impossible... more controlled test is required such as distilled water with 1% ritalin content or amount that is close to urine content.
As for the pupping excess Nitrogen content seems to cause this as does age. The urine continues urea nitrogen; ratio of 11-1-2.5 NPK. Nitrogen (urea specifically) seems to aid in alkaloid production/accumulation from what I gathered so your on the right track. ;)
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You're indeed right.
Cocain and MP look quite similar.
I hadn't look at it from the 3D bulk shape (and thus their receptor affinity and action)
Interesting, especially since they're chemically unrelated, one being a tropane alkaloid, while the other is a phenetylamine.
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Just counted them:
14 pups on 11 moms so far
I love 'em!
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Just counted them:
14 pups on 11 moms so far
I love 'em!
GodSPEED, Radium!
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Thanks bud!
The pups are also growing really fast, I'm mean really really fast.
Will post pics tomorrow for comparison of growth in these few days.
Everyday I wake up excitedly and look for new pups.
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Thanks bud!
The pups are also growing really fast, I'm mean really really fast.
Will post pics tomorrow for comparison of growth in these few days.
Everyday I wake up excitedly and look for new pups.
Interesting! Do you pee on all your cacti each and every day? I would suggest having 1 control group receiving an equivalent amount of water instead of urine, and 1 control group receiving no water. I would like to see if Pissing on cacti could indeed accelerate the growth rate of cacti! Unfortunately, it may take a year or so for such a trial to yield results, but I would love to see how things turn out!
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GodSPEED, Radium!
Tried to get it to start at 30 seconds, to no avail...
https://youtu.be/hE3LOHltBSM?t=32s
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Thanks bud!
The pups are also growing really fast, I'm mean really really fast.
Will post pics tomorrow for comparison of growth in these few days.
Everyday I wake up excitedly and look for new pups.
Interesting! Do you pee on all your cacti each and every day? I would suggest having 1 control group receiving an equivalent amount of water instead of urine, and 1 control group receiving no water. I would like to see if Pissing on cacti could indeed accelerate the growth rate of cacti! Unfortunately, it may take a year or so for such a trial to yield results, but I would love to see how things turn out!
I was just too excited when I said that.
Once I cooled down I remembered the only pup I had last year, which grew real fast at first, but stalled as it grew larger.
The reality is that as the pups age the growth rate remains constant (if not increased...),
but the daily relative volume increase is greater and more noticeable at the first month or so.
I would like to know if a growing mom with pups is still able to maintain the annual 30cm growth for her (and also for each of her pups).
And if so, how many pups does it take to begin to break it?
Unfortunately all my plants are pissed on,
And I'm sure they will eventually grow pups to the last one(all 30 of 'em)
I wished there was at least 2-3 plants which I didn't pissed on.
And no, I don't piss 'em daily, since I don't dilute it at all.
Anyway,
In piss I trust
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Today's pictures of all 14 pups
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The rest 8)
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GodSPEED, Radium!
Tried to get it to start at 30 seconds, to no avail...
https://youtu.be/hE3LOHltBSM?t=32s
This is EXACTLY what I meant by godSPEED.
Radium, if you ever get the urge to consume any of your urinals cacti, how would you ensure that the years of continual toxin/urine buildup wont kill you, and how could you stomach something you've been pissing on for its entire life? I'm not a doctor yet, but I don't think that a cactus which has been pissed on for its entire life would be safe to consume.
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Consume cactus?
How?
For building facial masks?
Or staying alive in case of a famine?
Anyway, I'm not much into phytochemistry, but I'm sure miss Spiny will change the toxins to inert stuff (at least relative to her own cells)
And if I ever build a cactus facial mask, I will notify here before applying it,
Then you'll know if I die or not ;D
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Soaked the pup-less gals with the golden water again, head to toe.
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Soaked the pup-less gals with the golden water again, head to toe.
Thanks bud!
The pups are also growing really fast, I'm mean really really fast.
Will post pics tomorrow for comparison of growth in these few days.
Everyday I wake up excitedly and look for new pups.
Interesting! Do you pee on all your cacti each and every day? I would suggest having 1 control group receiving an equivalent amount of water instead of urine, and 1 control group receiving no water. I would like to see if Pissing on cacti could indeed accelerate the growth rate of cacti! Unfortunately, it may take a year or so for such a trial to yield results, but I would love to see how things turn out!
I was just too excited when I said that.
Once I cooled down I remembered the only pup I had last year, which grew real fast at first, but stalled as it grew larger.
The reality is that as the pups age the growth rate remains constant (if not increased...),
but the daily relative volume increase is greater and more noticeable at the first month or so.
I would like to know if a growing mom with pups is still able to maintain the annual 30cm growth for her (and also for each of her pups).
And if so, how many pups does it take to begin to break it?
Unfortunately all my plants are pissed on,
And I'm sure they will eventually grow pups to the last one(all 30 of 'em)
I wished there was at least 2-3 plants which I didn't pissed on.
And no, I don't piss 'em daily, since I don't dilute it at all.
There's always time to designate control groups (1 w/no watering, 1 with reg water, 1 group pissed on, equal numbers in each group and see how rate of pupping differs) and just see what happens. That's just how science rolls.
Also, more pups isn't always a good thing, as has been discussed before. The mother plant feeds the pup until it is physically separated from it; thus, the size of the mother plant is proportional to the size & quantity (carrying capacity) of pups, any more exceeding the carrying capacity will only lead to over-expenditure of resources and will stress the plant even further. That being said, Trich cuttings, IMO, seem to have a pretty good success rate if taken at a point when they are >13cm long; by doing this, the mother logs, like hens, can conserve more energy to make even more pups to slice off... I am very curious to see if peeing on trichs can have a postitive impact on them.
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Just took some new shots for tracking the growth speed.
Got 1 new pup today as well, pictured without the USB stick.
I'm not sure, but I feel the pups are growing way faster than normal.
Nonetheless, so far the golden fluid has had no toxic effects on my spiny buddies, so I will continue.
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Any updates Radium? Did your cacti continue to pup/grow with your Ritalin piss?
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Any updates Radium? Did your cacti continue to pup/grow with your Ritalin piss?
Radium has not been active for several months. I was wondering about the trace mineral content of urine. Perhaps treating your plants to a vitamin tablet which also contains trace minerals every once and a while would be a good thing? Perhaps it is not the dog that decides to mark the tree but the tree which chemically calls out to the dog to come and make its mark. Perhaps it is the plant looking for the chemical bounty that the dog can bring?
Things are a bit crazy in his part of the world I hope all is well there.
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Given current prices of nuts that seems to be a perfect waste of money where nutes are available.
Youd be substituting a cheapo product with little or no requirements to be met with a higher price human consumption approved ($$$) product that btw is designed for humans not plants (plant nutes are designed for plants).
So I'd rather advise on getting a good all purpose fertilizer and if you want to get fancy you can buy individual nutrients to counter acute deficiency or pit together your own desired ratio for a given plants.
Stay away from your plants with pharma, if it does any good its highly likely its already being supplied for plants, thus cheaper and purpose made. Otherwise you might risk consuming various meds with any plant product, or even worse consume a metabolite of the meds that is unknown to you or anyone.
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Back in the 90s we used to use Miracle Gro to induce pupping. Dunno what's in it that makes it work so well but it does. Other nutes don't seem to have quite the same effect.
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I wonder how different species of animal "manure" work best on promoting cacti growth...
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http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/publication/AG_283.pdf
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I wonder how different species of animal "manure" work best on promoting cacti growth...
My cacti on chicken manure grow faster than the others on regular soil, only work on mature specimens, lost many seedlings due chicken poo :P
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I wonder how different species of animal "manure" work best on promoting cacti growth...
My cacti on chicken manure grow faster than the others on regular soil, only work on mature specimens, lost many seedlings due chicken poo :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHUIU3HG1rk
Perhaps we should look into the use of different composted waste-clumps of different species of animals compare when used as fertilizer; a friend of mine has half a ton or so of pure elephant "manure" collected from a nearby circus; I'd like to see how large animal manure differs from hominid, feline, canine, and/or other species of animals in your local. Can't wait to see moar results.
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I saw a passing comment on another forum that the common pain killer naproxen would have an effect like plant hormones .any one have any info on that .
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informative and funny thanks
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I really like the black and white photo a couple pages back of the cacti with the powerlines in the background. Stark contrast.
Nice photo Radium.
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was August when Radium was last on the forum. That's a long gap. Hope he is ok in his part of the world. mj.
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I miss my favourite iranian nuclear scientist :(
I miss too many people recently
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I miss my favourite iranian nuclear scientist :(
I miss too many people recently
Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.