Share The Seeds
Gardening Area => Growing questions and answers => Topic started by: Inyan on January 26, 2018, 08:30:47 PM
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Brief description of what your looking at.
1. soak seedlings/ this helps to clean and hydrate. 0min-24 hours (min-max range) I generally soak 5 minutes -1hr
2. Wrap your stock. The obvious leaves etc. must be removed first. 1 inch piece of parafilm or so is needed for this.
3. Piece for top of graft to hold scion/seedling in place
4. slowly stretch that puppy out nice and tight so it feels like saran wrap or slightly thinner
5. Put a seedling in your mouth to hold it in place/grab razor blade and slice stock to create a nice smooth surface
6. Place your seedling on cut surface/offset
7. Gently drape parafilm wrap over seedling and slowly bring all sides down without putting pressure on seedling itself. You may wish to hold seedling in place by placing a slight bit of pressure over seedling while drawing down sides of parafilm. After seedling is secured off center and without pulling on parafilm you may twist parafilm around sides to draw the seedling in tighter. Larger seedlings may get a little pressure or more man handling without fear. 1-2 week old seedlings may be crushed if you are not delicate.
8. Prepare your label and place label.
The size of the seedling used in this grafting procedure is the size I use when I want 99-100% of my grafts to take and I'm not rushing things.
The size you see already grafted and growing in the last slide... those were grafted at 1 week of age and came from the same batch of seedlings. I tend to graft seedlings at the 1-2 week mark when I don't mind losing a few or there is an albino/variegate that I want to speed up and I'm worried they won't make it. Grafts 2 weeks old give me a 95-97% success rate with this method. 1 week or less grafts give me 80-90% success rate on average. As with everything there are always other variables that may come into play to bring your success rate up or down with any particular batch of seedlings. Did the weather drop in temperature?
Was there a marked change in humidity?....not as much of a factor for parafilm grafting, but is important with non-parafilm grafting. Did I use a fresh razor blade for stock and a new razor for scions? A dull razor will effect your success rate. If using a separate blade to remove leaves and cut stock from scion... i.e. two blades are used I will tend to only graft 25-50 seedlings per blade. If I go away from my project I will discard the blade or use it only to remove leaves which will then give me 3 blades per graft.
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Quick run down on different stock for you.
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Practical , nice
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Thanks Inyan!! :)
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needed this thanks! :) ;D 8)
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Thanks guys, I really love grafting as it is one of my top 10 activities that relaxes me. I've tried many different styles of grafting over the years and this method here has easily made my grafts much more foolproof. I've had trays of graft flipped and tossed right after grafting and still had them take with this method. The added benefit of being able to graft year round with ease without regard to humidity or temperature so long as it is not freezing makes it my personal favorite way of grafting. I honestly believe with this simple tool... a $5.00 spool of parafilm will get almost anyone who has never grafted up to a 97-99% success rate with seedlings this size if they simply practice a few grafts each day. I don't generally gamble, but I'd be willing to bet it would take less than a months practice for a person who has never grafted to achieve that rate of success with this method provided they were not wired from drinking too much coffee or such when they were making the grafts.
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Sweet! I'm going to have to get some cacti to try this with...
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If you or anyone else needs some help with this method feel free to post your attempts here or any questions you might have. I haven't met anyone I couldn't teach how to graft regardless of age so long as they were old enough to hold a razor blade and when too young for that... if an adult will make the cut for them... I still believe they can be taught. The more people we have that no how to salvage a variegated seedling that might not otherwise make it the better in my opinion. Never mind speeding up next generation of hopefuls for early release.
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Where does one get parafilm?
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Where does one get parafilm?
https://www.amazon.com/Roll-Parafilm-Nursery-Grafting-Tape/dp/B00FFTRTBO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1517264361&sr=8-6&keywords=parafilm+grafting+tape
Any of the below will work. Last 2 rolls I bought cost me 5$ total. You really won't need more than that unless you are grafting more than a few thousand seedlings. I've used all of the above. They are very similar, just the larger diameter takes more work to tear down to size for seedlings, but is better for larger cacti.
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I present pictures for how I wrap my seedlings for those that like that sort of thing. I am of the opinion that if your at least 5 years of age... you should be as good with these simple techniques.
Important: Do not crush seedlings. Place stretched out parafilm like a drape over seedling that is off center as in picture 1. Lightly pull down without exerting force on seedling. You can reposition one hand or get a helper to lightly hold seedling in place if you need to, but seedling should not move if no pressure is applied. As your wrap a bit at a time around the stock... your seedling will naturally be drawn into the stock. If at the end you suspect not enough pressure is on your seedling or your seedling is not secure enough... you may then make a light scrunching motion at the scion where you first wrapped the scion. This should draw your seedling down a bit more and create a very tight union, but be careful... it is easy to get that seedling union too tight. This will result in a smashed union and your grafted seedling will eventually turn to mush and or dry out.
If this is oversimplified, I apologize. It is my intention to have everyone 5 years of age and up grafting as good or better than myself. Call it simple greed. The more I teach, the more that becomes available to myself sooner rather than later as more people start grafting more seedlings.
Please note, this is a hands free method. You should be able to walk away from your grafts at any stage once the seedling is in place if you needed to. Please don't do that however.
As I like to say, Get er done! A long delay can and will upset the likelihood that your graft will take.
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What host varieties would you suggest and what are the relative carictaristics of each?
What do you do to prepair the seedling it's self for grafting/how is the seedling joined to the host?
I'll think of some other things to add here, just can't think of anything else atm...
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What host varieties would you suggest and what are the relative carictaristics of each?
What do you do to prepair the seedling it's self for grafting/how is the seedling joined to the host?
I'll think of some other things to add here, just can't think of anything else atm...
I'm not going to to into each and every cacti as a potential stock plant. I will tell you my favorite for growing seedlings fast is Trichocereus. My favorite for growing many seedings a bit slower is Pereskiopsis. If I want something in-between then I choose Quiabentia zehntneri. Its all about the space though. If I graft onto Pereskiopsis... I try to get my seedling off and onto something a bit bigger sooner rather than later. If grafting onto Trichocereus I don't have that concern.
Preparation: If growing hydroponic or bog-ponic seedlings you don't need to worry about a long soak, but I still tend to soak for 15 or so minutes regardless as it knocks off some of the mud clinging to my seedlings. You will also want to cut your seedlings to remove a small bit of tissue so you can position your seedling off center of the stock growth ring/vascular ring. I've presented some pictures of that already.
You may position your seedling anyway that is comfortable for you to take that small bit of tissue off to allow you to place your seedling onto of your stock plants vascular ring. The straighter your seedling stands the better in most cases. Here is one way I have done it in the pictures to follow.
The seedling having been cut in half either horizontally or vertically and placed on the vascular ring will naturally become a part of that other cacti it has been grafted to provided it doesn't float off via the cacti/stock's own juices, get knocked off, or dry out.
You can increase humidity to prevent drying out, or you can simply use parafilm. I use parafilm to prevent drying out as well as to prevent the seedling from floating off or getting knocked off. I can literally graft my seedlings and then throw them across the room and they will still take as they are secured with parafilm.
The bottom line when looking at potential stock is that you ideally want it to be well rooted and actively growing. You want to cut into fresh green growth that is not woody. If you find your stock is even slightly woody, you have cut too low and or used too old of a piece of stock. You are going to evaluate your own stock cacti as you realize how that stock grows and the speed at which it grows will be transferred to your seedling.
Important: If you don't want to use parafilm... do not water your stock cacti a few days before and after you are going to graft. If you are going to use parafilm... water away. If your not using parafilm... keep the humidity high. If your using parafilm don't worry about a thing. If your going to have strong winds or people banging into your grafts... use parafilm.
With parafilm your not going to have to remember to remove anything or do anything special. Just graft and leave it in place. One more important thing though... don't put more than one layer on top of your graft. It has to grow through that thin layer you left in place. It is the sides of the graft down at the stock that will have a thicker layer of parafilm simply because the top piece is touching the layer you wrapped around your stock before you began.
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Trichocereus scopulicola x T. terscheckii update here for those following
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Update to seedlings grafted on Trichocereus
Now, if your following the progression of these two seedlings grafted onto Trichocereus your probably asking why are they not growing? As you can see, they are staying nice and plump and that means they are still alive and in no real danger given that they have made it through the first few weeks at this size unscathed.
The answer: The side pups on one are stealing the energy from the grafted seedling. And the other seedling is actually grafted to a small pup on a much larger Trichocereus. Cutting a pup like this while it may take, may also resort in renewed vigor somewhere else in the main stock cacti or even additional popping. I've decided to allow the pupping and the change of growth to get a few pups to play with.
The easy fix should we wish to push growth into these two seedlings is to either remove all pups from the first seedling grafts stock cacti. The other seedlings easy fix would be to simply remove the top portion of the Trichocereus so that the small pup it was grafted to then is elevated to the highest point on the cacti.
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Awesome thread and info! I strongly recommend checking out Buddy Tape. Way easier to work with than parafilm. Stretchy and sticks to itself quite well. Seals up much better. You should increase your success rates by using BT.
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Tried this tek a few hours ago.,. i only had cling-wrap to use, sooo we'll see...
buddytape looks interesting, but prices that i found are higher than parafilm!
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Awesome thread and info! I strongly recommend checking out Buddy Tape. Way easier to work with than parafilm. Stretchy and sticks to itself quite well. Seals up much better. You should increase your success rates by using BT.
The buddy tape I know... costs significantly more than parafilm. With that being said, on the low end I generally get 97.5% success rate with my small seedling grafts using parafilm. The older the seedling the better the percentage that takes. I can get well over 1,000 grafts done with a single $5.00 roll of parafilm. Out of 1000 seedling grafts just a few weeks old, I will have less than 20 that don't make it.
Do you have an inexpensive source for buddy tape?
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Tried this tek a few hours ago.,. i only had cling-wrap to use, sooo we'll see...
buddytape looks interesting, but prices that i found are higher than parafilm!
Cling wrap is not my favorite, but it does work. Post some pictures in this this thread if you took them of the process otherwise post some pictures of your finished product in a few days when you get the chance please... I love seeing new grafts and help out when I can.
A quick look at my grafts done today. Tried to take these showing just a few steps again. Emphasis on placement of seedling/scion off center helps me personally.
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Awesome thread and info! I strongly recommend checking out Buddy Tape. Way easier to work with than parafilm. Stretchy and sticks to itself quite well. Seals up much better. You should increase your success rates by using BT.
The buddy tape I know... costs significantly more than parafilm. With that being said, on the low end I generally get 97.5% success rate with my small seedling grafts using parafilm. The older the seedling the better the percentage that takes. I can get well over 1,000 grafts done with a single $5.00 roll of parafilm. Out of 1000 seedling grafts just a few weeks old, I will have less than 20 that don't make it.
Do you have an inexpensive source for buddy tape?
Yes, it is expensive, but it goes a long way. Stretches a lot, and the rolls have a lot on them. The material is very thin, so think there is a lot more length on the BT vs parafilm even before stretching. If you are a good stretcher, you could really get a lot out of a roll. I've used mine a bit and can't even tell there is a dent in the roll yet.
Think mine was purchased on Amazon. Have seen it for sale from members on other plant forums, but not sure about the price.
If you are getting good grafting success with pf, then might not be worth it. I just like working with it, and pf aggravates me.
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Awesome thread and info! I strongly recommend checking out Buddy Tape. Way easier to work with than parafilm. Stretchy and sticks to itself quite well. Seals up much better. You should increase your success rates by using BT.
The buddy tape I know... costs significantly more than parafilm. With that being said, on the low end I generally get 97.5% success rate with my small seedling grafts using parafilm. The older the seedling the better the percentage that takes. I can get well over 1,000 grafts done with a single $5.00 roll of parafilm. Out of 1000 seedling grafts just a few weeks old, I will have less than 20 that don't make it.
Do you have an inexpensive source for buddy tape?
Yes, it is expensive, but it goes a long way. Stretches a lot, and the rolls have a lot on them. The material is very thin, so think there is a lot more length on the BT vs parafilm even before stretching. If you are a good stretcher, you could really get a lot out of a roll. I've used mine a bit and can't even tell there is a dent in the roll yet.
Think mine was purchased on Amazon. Have seen it for sale from members on other plant forums, but not sure about the price.
If you are getting good grafting success with pf, then might not be worth it. I just like working with it, and pf aggravates me.
I really like the sound of the stuff. I paid 5$ a roll for my parafilm and each roll lasted well over 1,000 grafts. I'd have to have a few inches of the stuff to play with before I could sink that much into a roll of the stuff to be honest given the fact that the amount of failed grafts I have are negligible to none I'd have to see some real magic happen to make me switch. I'm not saying its not hidden in that roll, but I'm not willing to spend that kind of money when what I'm working with does great. If I could acquire a small sample for 5$ I'd be all over it to see if it warranted switching over though. I'd give it a fair trial side by side with my parafilm.
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My first grafting attempt that didn't get knocked over..
?How long should i wait before removing plastic wrap?
the cling wrap did not cling or stretch well..
i see how parafilm could have been better,
but it worked better than nothing for sure.
(https://files.shroomery.org/files/18-10/053894422-IMG_20180306_2003181.jpg)
(https://files.shroomery.org/files/18-10/053894497-IMG_20180306_2023121.jpg)
(razerblade was sterilized with lighter, and cooled/cleaned with hydrogen peroxide and water)
(https://files.shroomery.org/files/18-10/053894561-IMG_20180306_2030451.jpg)
(Two A.Diffusa pups were cut with sterile blade, and dropped in 1 part (3%)H2O2 and 9 parts H2O)
Periski-stems were wrapped, then cut right above wrap. Pup was placed on the top, and wrapped.
(https://files.shroomery.org/files/18-10/053894621-IMG_20180306_2107331.jpg)
So remove plastic in a few days.. is that right? i would think at least a week.. MANY MANY THAnKS~!
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1st a before and after graft done with cling wrap. Note, I don't like this method, but it does work. What you are looking at here are two seedlings grafted together inside this little wedge. I like to share this one as it shows a little light through the bottom and one side indicating that the connections are not perfect. They don't have to be, but imperfections like this can occur due to removing the cling wrap too soon and allowing the tissue to dry out on the side.
They can also simply occur due to improper alignment/
jagged cuts from multiple slices--try to make just one cut or two in the case of a wedge graft when possible.
jarring during or after grafting via bumping -- happens most often when the graft is not secure enough
pulling at the graft/happens when one removes cling wrap. Often caused by spines hanging up in the cling wrap or being too hasty with the removal.
Now, to your question... how long to leave the cling wrap on. That depends on how fast your stock is growing, but as a general rule 1-2 weeks is adequate time to leave cling wrap on. However, like parafilm... if you simply allow nature to do some of the work of removal for you then you will often fare better. Leaving cling wrap on too long can stunt or deform a graft. Keep an eye out as your stock may grow faster or slower. Another reason when I graft with this method I look at my grafts daily.
This is what I mean. With parafilm I can leave the wrap on indefinitely. The scion simply grows through the parafilm and the parafilm eventually falls off. No worries.
With cling wrap, I simply remove the holding device... in this case a clothespin and allow the cling wrap to loosen up on its own over several hours. When I come back if it is not sufficiently loose I can pull at the edges bit by bit to loosen it up. Problems mainly occur if spines are left on catch in the cling wrap. Removal of spines helps with cling wrap in my opinion to prevent those spines from catching and pulling at the cling wrap. However, even leaving them in they are rarely a problem unless they are sufficiently stout and long and the graft has barely taken. Bottom line, if you have have any worries... leave it be is often after you have unsecured your parafilm. As your graft grows stronger and bigger it will generally finish popping off the parafilm for you. Never rush a graft is my motto, but we are all guilty of it from time to time. I know when I first started grafting some few decades ago I ruined a great many grafts by rushing to peak or looking too soon. I still do as a matter of fact as now I have the added experience and knowledge on how to mess up my grafts with style. Impatience is never good.
Seedling graft on Trichocereus. I also did with cling wrap. That one was only left in place for a single week if memory serves. I had to remove the cling wrap as black mold started to creep in... another draw back I have found that occurs for me more often when using cling wrap rather than parafilm. My personal remedy to the black mold if I catch it early is to poke holes in my cling wrap to let it breath just a little.
Lastly, one need not use any wrap at all as was the case with this triple graft. Notice the bottle remains around it. I like this style as its fun and makes use of water bottles, gatorade, powerade, etc. type bottles. Simply cut and fill with dirt and your stock plant leaving the top attached on one side to the bottom of the bottle. I.e. don't cut the bottle all the way through. Now, with this style graft you rely on a slight humidity provided by the micro green house you will create when you fold the top of your bottle back over your grafted scions. Wrap the finish product with tape and secure in a position where it gets dappled sun light and no more 1 hour of direct sunlight in a day. If too much water condenses in the bottle... remove the cap and let it vent. If there is not clear humidity and condensation in the bottle you can use a straw to put a little water down the sides of the bottle. Not too much though and make sure not to water this bottle or the stock Pereskiopsis for 3-5 days prior to grafting or your grafted seedlings that are unsecured will likely simply float off. You can also cheat with this method and simply use parafilm. to secure your seedlings to the graft. After 7-14 days depending on rate of growth... I will then water. Remove cap for a few days. Then remove top of bottle if no signs of scion drying out are present. If scion appears to be drying out... mist or add water and then cover again.
Hope that helps you my friend.
Next time.... parafilm! Laughing... so long as your method works 97.5% of the time for you or more... I don't think it really matters which technique you become proficient at. Lets get everyone to that 97.5% success rate or better mark though. That last statement is my greed talking as I love seeing new eye candy fast!
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Slab Grafting... as you can see, these are a lot bigger than my usual grafts.
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An update for the wee little giants just a day old today
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Trichocereus bridgesii pure species = yellow