Share The Seeds
General and Off Topic => General Discussion => Topic started by: Radium on June 03, 2016, 01:12:38 AM
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Our laws do not allow the shipment of any plant material (except seeds).
So if I grow an interest into something (Kratom, Khat, etc) I must grow it myself, and from seeds (no cuttings allowed).
I've read that Khat and Kratom need several years to mature for harvest, and also Kratom doesn't grow so well from seeds.
So at best, these two are considered long-term remedies for me.
Do you know any other plants suitable as depression remedies, that are:
- reaching harvest time relatively fast
- easy to grow from seeds
- able to grow in containers
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Caapi, Passiflora, Syrian Rue any maoi plant will remedy depression. They are also considered 'safer' then prescription mao due to being reversible. Many people suggest the maoi diet however I've eaten yogurt and cheese after dosing Rue and caapi on multiple occasions without any complications. I believe that the diet restrictions are only for non-reversible mao medication.
Exercise, meditation, healthy diet and enough sleep are also easy remedies for depression. Even tending to plants and 'playing' with dirt has proven to aid depression relief. Depending on plant material works short term but you may become dependent and unless you have a lot of plants may not have enough to use daily.
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I don't have any seeds but have you considered Hypericum Perforatum (St. John's Wort)?
http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-st-johns-wort.html
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as modern said...
Caapi 8)
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Be sure to do research about any potential drug interactions with any Rx from your doctor that you may already be taking, especially regarding MAOI interactions!!! Any plant based maoi will likely interact similarly to how Rx maoi interacts with drugs. MAOI drug interactions can be fatal!
Also, as with any Rx drug, plants taken medicinally can have unwanted side effects. I had to stop taking a St. John's Wort tincture I got from the store because I was becoming overly sensitive to light, I would get headaches from being outside during the brightest part of the day, that side effect started after about a month of taking as per the directions on the label
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Papaver S
Kanna
Valeriana
Albizia julibrissin
TBM could not be more right do your research
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text has been removed. regards mj.
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Low dose Salvia divinorum.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2721268/
Seed availability would be an issue, but they seem to be more and more available.
Dosing would require some trial and error, but the good news is no one dies from salvia. ;) Also, it apparently works by a completely different mechanism from the classic antidepressants, so none of the nasty side effects associated with those.
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Radium...
Have you thought of bringing up these issues regarding depression with the doctor who prescribes you ritalin? I'm sure they would be more than happy to listen to your concerns/qualms/problems/etc. and script you other meds which may be effective in treating depression (IME, and according to a good chunk of online literature, lamotrigene can do wonders for treatment of BDD/MDD and does not have any documented DDIs with any of the sought-after drugs/plants commonly used by psychonauts/seedians). I would suggest you bring up any issues you are currently having regarding depression with your Dr. and ask iif you could be tried on lamotrigene (brand name Lamictal) for help with any issues related to depression. Unfortunately, by the time any seeds have born antidepressant fruit/leaves/branches/etc. you or a loved one may already be dead and long-gone from depression-induced/related suicide. If you are already being prescribed (and hopefully taking AS directed) two psycho-stimulants (Methylphenidate AND buproprion) by your physician, as you stated in a previous thread, I would suggest bringing up any newfound issues with any depression/depressive symptoms you may have with your doctor(s) the next time you meet with them, as manifestation and worsening of depressive symptoms are a common side effect of both of those stimulants, especially when used together on a daily basis. It may be that your current meds and/or lifestyle/living environment could be causing/exacerbating said depressive symptoms, or that you may need to switch/stop/add-on more meds to your stack in order to effectively deal with any issues with depression which may have arisen within you. Again, I must emphasize that I am not physician YET, and that my advice is not to substitute for that of your own personal physician. That being said, I would recommend you mention any depression & med related issues with the Dr. writing your meds, see what they think about the situation/circumstances of said depression, hammer-out a plan to try to tackle these symptoms whilst still effectively managing any other neuro/psycho/physiological issues you may be having to take meds for, see how the change in med regimen affects you, re-consult with them, and, if ineffective, try a new combo and so on and so forth. Whatever you do, please keep your doctor in the loop. More often than not herbs tend to harm rather than heal/treat clinical depression. While I'm not entirely ruling out the possibility of you wandering out into the desert and/or bazaar to seek depression relief from p. harmala seeds, I think it would be wise to run these issues by your doctor before senselessly self-medicating yourself with whatever "great" "all-natural" ideas some screwball seedian suggests you blindly take without prior medical consultation beforehand.
Be careful, my friend. Death's door is always open. Don't climb on through just yet. Get help. See a doctor. Talk it out with someone close to you in order to get a better understanding as to the root cause of said depression. Above all, I hope you Get better.
Selah,
-Mangrove
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I don't have any seeds but have you considered Hypericum Perforatum (St. John's Wort)?
http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-st-johns-wort.html
Be sure to do research about any potential drug interactions with any Rx from your doctor that you may already be taking, especially regarding MAOI interactions!!! Any plant based maoi will likely interact similarly to how Rx maoi interacts with drugs. MAOI drug interactions can be fatal!
Also, as with any Rx drug, plants taken medicinally can have unwanted side effects. I had to stop taking a St. John's Wort tincture I got from the store because I was becoming overly sensitive to light, I would get headaches from being outside during the brightest part of the day, that side effect started after about a month of taking as per the directions on the label
St. John's wort is a super-strong CYP3A4 inducer, which may interfere with other meds he's taking, reducing their efficacy. Would not advise without consulting physician beforehand.
For Allah's Akbaring sake, man, just TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT THIS STUFF. WE'RE PLANT GEEKS. NOT MED GEEKS
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The topic is very obscure and you will get many many different answers, and opinions. Online there's mostly random articles, also contradicting each other, and so on.
What's most important is to decide what is needed from a "anti-depressant". Some herbs offer depressant-like effects, for example Valerian.
It's sedative and induces sleep, symptoms which might go hand in hand with general depression. On the other hand, St. Johns Wort has showed anti-depressant qualities.
Well, not trying to promote any of the two plants at the moment, the point is to try to find EXACT effects you are looking for. Some are anxiolytics, some (anti)-depressants, etc.
The next step would be to research the available info. Since I did research some plants quite extensively, my suggestion is to look for scientific studies, as the only source of information that's been consistent with the results and suggestions.
For example:
I'm looking for an anti-depressant plant species.
Found a study researching anti-depressant effects from some common herbs in rats (not humans, but pretty close, right?)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/44572521_Antidepressant-like_effect_of_Salvia_sclarea_is_explained_by_modulation_of_dopamine_activities_in_rats
Results suggest that Salvia sclarea has the best properties for that purpose.
The next step would be to find out WHY and HOW it happens, and if it would be of any use to you.
Essential oils are mostly the "active" components of these aromatic herbs, so maybe find a profile for the plant in research:
http://ijagcs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/828-831.pdf
The most abundant component of the oil seems to be Linalyl acetate, so the next step would be to research if it's the molecule responsible for the effects,
and if it is, find some other plants containing it.
It is a lot of work, but for me was the only sure way to find out what I was looking for. I saved tons of material on the same topic (plants and essential oils that affect GABA and other receptors), but now I got way too much material to research. When I'm finished hopefully, I can compile it and share.
And yes, some herb components react with medications and other stuff, which should be thoroughly researched also, before doing and experiments :D
Also - while we're on the topic, I don't buy the whole "professionalism" in the medicine field. They suggest us to use chemically-derived products, which have been proven to have serious side effects or haven't been used by human population long enough to know how it affects us long-term, while at the same time keeping a blind eye on the research of the plants components which might be just-as-effective, if not more effective. If they do find such an effective, naturally occurring alternative, they will try to synthetitize is and add a bunch of other stuff to it, then present it to you in a "professional" and "scientific" way which will make you trust it more then your own instinct and ideas. If the common goal was to cure disease, I would trust the pharmacy and doctors, but I don't think that's the case to full extent.
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By the way, although my post was brief and only asked whether St. John's wort was considered, the link I provided discusses both the warning to consult a physician and the warning about light sensitivity. The link again: http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-st-johns-wort.html
And the warnings from the link:
Side Effects
Not to be taken together with the contraceptive pill, anti-epilepsy treatments and a number of other medications including anti-depressants. If you are taking any medication consult your doctor before starting St John's Wort. It should not be taken together with foods that contain tyramine i.e. cheese, red wine, preserved meats and yeast extracts.
Both oral and topical forms of St. John's wort may make unprotected skin more sensitive to sunlight or artificial light in sun tanning parlors. Some evidence from case reports also seems to associate a higher risk of cataracts with possible eye sensitisation to light when St. John's wort is taken. If you use St. John's wort, be sure to use sunscreen and eye protection when exposed to sunlight or artificial light used in sun tanning. Side effects reported from taking St. John's wort by mouth include: Dizziness, Drowsiness, Dry mouth, Headache, Irritability, Upset stomach.
Rare cases of serotonin syndrome, a potentially dangerous oversupply of serotonin in the body, have been attributed to taking St. John's wort. Uncontrolled serotonin syndrome may result in coma, seizures, and death. Symptoms of serotonin syndrome include: Confusion, Euphoria, Fever, Hallucinations, Inability to coordinate muscles, Nausea, Restlessness, Shakiness, Sweating, Vomiting.
DO NOT
take St. John's Wort if you are having Chemotherapy, or will be starting chemotherapy within several weeks, as St. John's wort affects the metabolism (breakdown) of chemotherapy drugs by the liver and therefore seems to make these drugs much less effective.
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Let me further add -- never assume any plant I mention is a recommendation to consume such plant. I do not dispense medical advice. Further, to paraphrase Mangrove: Don't seek medical advice from plant geeks. :)
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Oh!
So much replies in such a short time, I'm impressed, tnx guys.
First let me clear this:
I started this thread to "hear about" potential anti-depressant plants that "I have not knew before".
That is, I just "take the plant names" you suggest, and begin to "do my own research" then.
And never worry, Radium is an uber-careful person with enough understanding of medical literature to save his arse.
And also please note:
Radium is currently spending his "good times of the year" and is enjoying the life, no matter how shitty it really is.
He is just worried about his winter, so want's to be prepared beforehand when the gray days hit him.
This thread is for helping him for preparing for winter, and for compiling an extensive presentation about "urban poor-man's anti-depressant remedies".
So, throw me any plant names that comes to your mind.
I will research all of them.
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Dr. Dukes Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases is an interesting resource. Try this search already selected for plants and depression: https://phytochem.nal.usda.gov/phytochem/ethnoActivity/show/582
Clicking on the plant name provides further information and references in some cases.
I also suggest try the unselected link for the full experience:
https://phytochem.nal.usda.gov/phytochem/search/list
Seems fairly useful for research purposes.
:)
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Dr. Dukes Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases is an interesting resource. Try this search already selected for plants and depression: https://phytochem.nal.usda.gov/phytochem/ethnoActivity/show/582 (https://phytochem.nal.usda.gov/phytochem/ethnoActivity/show/582)
Clicking on the plant name provides further information and references in some cases.
I also suggest try the unselected link for the full experience:
https://phytochem.nal.usda.gov/phytochem/search/list (https://phytochem.nal.usda.gov/phytochem/search/list)
Seems fairly useful for research purposes.
:)
Looks nice,
But why is it mulfunctioning often when searching for a chem or effect or plant?
@Mangrove:
Dude are you a Muslim?
BTW,
Does anyone here have any reports/stories/resources/etc of P.harmala being really attempted for depression relief by someone somewhere sometime?
Everywhere I go I just read it "has" anti-depressant activities, but I can't find any user/patient/research report anywhere of its application for this purpose.
The same is true for its claimed help in "opiate withrawal symptoms" relief.
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syrian rue contains a strong maoi component so yes that is a common chemical used to treat depression but it does not work for everyone. easy enough to try. search maoi use for depression there is lots of information. at a guess 1/16 -1/8 gram of ground seed a day but I am guessing but in the ball park best o check and to start low work up.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841998/
http://www.drugs.com/npp/syrian-rue.html
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1516-syrian%20rue.aspx?activeingredientid=1516&activeingredientname=syrian%20rue
Turmeric also contains maoi's and if you eat a 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of that a day with your food it should help improve your mood and keep your blood on the thinner side which is good if you consume a lot of fat (as in if you are a meat eater) Low fat consumption in my book is below 10 grams of fat a day. Turmeric tastes better than rue also and is to me less upsetting to the stomach you can take it with ginger (fresh) good for you also.
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the MOA of MOAI is one of the body's defenders, the I in MAOI inhibits these defenses which in the case of depression allow a maximum amount of the body's naturally produced serotonin to reach the brain, thus the natural and safe relief from depression
hope this helps
-Ian
I know it does for me
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syrian rue contains a strong maoi component so yes that is a common chemical used to treat depression but it does not work for everyone. easy enough to try. search maoi use for depression there is lots of information. at a guess 1/16 -1/8 gram of ground seed a day but I am guessing but in the ball park best o check and to start low work up.
syrian rue is neuroprotective and works wonders for brain chemistry ;D antidepressant effects can be felt weeks after dosing, if taken regularly before. it builds reverse tolerance and synergizes with many other stuff.
it is proven to be effective as an anti depressant, and is overall a way underrated plant in my experience. I agree MAOIs are an unique group of antidepressants, it should be researched first.
tons of info:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841998/
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Some links claim that Syrian Rue is used as treatment for depression in Yemen.
Like previously mentioned be VERY careful if you are taking any other medication as the combination may be fatal. You should consult with your doctor if you have clinical depression as not being treated properly may not be wise.
FDA disclaimer
"These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These plants are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease."
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Looks nice,
But why is it mulfunctioning often when searching for a chem or effect or plant?
Don't know. Seems to work fine for me. What search term is causing problems? I'll see if I get the same error.
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@Mangrove:
Dude are you a Muslim?
No. I was born a jew, raised a jew from bris to bar-mitzvah, then decided to abandon the faith after further researching Israel's apartheid quasi-fascist government and widespread repression & inhumane displacement of indigenous non-jewish populations just to make room for the "chosen people" to re-occupy the land they used to before the Romans cast them out into the desert and burned down Solomon's temple. I find that self-exploration via entheos, romance/relationships, interactions with the world around me and being a kind being to be much more fulfilling than going to Shul. Recent explorations via entheos over the past several years have also taught me well to honor the God within each and every one of us, and to find our own inner state of eternal smadhi where the soul lies in the Elysian fields of blissful peace is where the real God/self is at. IMO & IME, religion is a means of separating me from God.
I am, however, curious to hear moar about your own religious views. Are you a practicing Mohammedan? IF so, what sect. If not, why not? What impact does Shi'ite culture have on your family/community and what do you think of the current regime in charge of your country? I'm curious to see how opinions & religious beliefs differ among different people in different parts of the world. Since I am more American and materialistic than others, I view religions as money-grubbing cults, for the most part. Salvation is immaterial; it cannot be bought, no matter how much money one contributes to their own synagogue/mosque/church/"house of god." Jesus was an awesome guy. He healed the sick for free, fed thousands on a shoe-string budget, and performed miracles out the wazoo. I just don't like his fan club, nor the dogma they have come to adopt and blindly live by.
Remember how our sister website can't help but jackhammer the fact that MAOI + Amphetamine = Death? Well guess what, the same thing might apply in the case of methylphenidate. Again, talk with a Dr. Before eating any Syrian Rue (RIMA) or taking any other significant mood/health-changing substance until you consult with an actual doctor.
Further, to paraphrase Mangrove: Don't seek medical advice from plant geeks. :)
Speaking of "urban poor-man's anti-depressant remedies" why not suggest such a poor man see a doctor (given that most governments offer free/socialized healthcare, I'm sure this would be a viable option for the poor peoples of MOST countries), take a look at the average cost of a dose/session of every pharmaceutical drug and homeopathic therapy w/antidepressant capabilities and tabulate cost results in a spreadsheet for us to mull over? There are dozens of ways of treating depression, some options involving pharmacotherapy with either prescribed pharmaceuticals or herbal remedies, others involving more alternative methods such as massage, moodlights, etc. it's important to consider the costs of each therapy based on its own unique properties (e.g. avg cost of pill/herbal dose, cost of therapy session, cost of mood-lights or other anti-depressant devices, etc.)in order to evaluate economic effectiveness for the less-fortunate among us. I eagerly await the results of your research :)
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First of all, I'm not even coming near any recommendation here, but P.harmala has RIMA (reversible inhibitors of MAO_A) compounds, not irreversible non-selective MAOIs (like Nardil).
That means while MAO_A is inhibited and the levels of dopamine/norepinephrine/serotonin (and also most of drugs you've gulped) will rise, the tyramine levels still remain constant, since the MAO_B is still erect and raping tyramine's little heXXXic arse.
I've heard (and also confirm myself) that ingesting raw whole P.harmala seeds (I mean not ground or crushed or chewed) feels more clean and gentle.
But requires more seeds to be ingested in caps.
What's the usual dose of seeds (not extracts) for depression in grams?
AND the BIG question:
Is there any data on the side-effects of gulping down P.harmala seeds for depression over long-term?
Like kidney failure or anything?
Mangrove,
There's no account of dinosaurs in Abrahamic religions (while there's lots of bragging about the creation of cows, birds, fishes, and even ants and bees!)
And while God "almighty peace be upon him oh my good lord whatever" claims he has finally created a flawless creature called man (his masterpiece), he asks us stupid mortals to fix a little leftover bug down the pants ourselves via circumcision...
So yeah, for these solid reasons, I get religious as hell when I realize how caring he is, paying attention to every detail and even being careful not to boogie us with his scary previous sandbox monsters we call dinosaurs, so not telling us anything about them.
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Be mindful with our posts, with some of what's being discussed there is plenty of room to accidentally offend or upset other members. :D
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Peganum Harmala(Syrian Rue)
Should be growing wild in your area Radium.
If you have a crockpot simmer a few grams of dried seeds on medium-high over night and sip in the morning
:)