Share The Seeds
Gardening Area => Seeds and Germination => Topic started by: Cane Blossom on July 13, 2013, 10:00:44 AM
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http://www.cabi.org/gara/FullTextPDF/2009/20093347888.pdf (http://www.cabi.org/gara/FullTextPDF/2009/20093347888.pdf)
found this when contemplating germinating some of my rue.
figured it was worth sharing.
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http://www.cabi.org/gara/FullTextPDF/2009/20093347888.pdf (http://www.cabi.org/gara/FullTextPDF/2009/20093347888.pdf)
found this when contemplating germinating some of my rue.
figured it was worth sharing.
Thanks for sharing this my friend :)
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Thank you for this, it's a great resource. There's not a lot of information about Peganum Harmala germination easily available, so much appreciated.
Moved to the Seeds and Germination Section.
Best wishes,
Mandrake
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That links interesting. I've started many syrian rue seedlings from seeds that I was told weren't viable by the vendor I got them from. Most would eventually germinate if given a little time. I germinated them in my bathroom window in summer so the temp was probably around 78-80 F.
The problem I ran into was that when they got a little over an inch tall they would fall over and the stem right above the root would be shriveled up. I managed to grow one of them into a small bush a little over a foot tall, but it ended up dying after a little over a year.
I'll have to give it a try again sometime soon paying more attention to the temp and possibly try scarifying a few.
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The problem I ran into was that when they got a little over an inch tall they would fall over and the stem right above the root would be shriveled up. I managed to grow one of them into a small bush a little over a foot tall, but it ended up dying after a little over a year.
I'll have to give it a try again sometime soon paying more attention to the temp and possibly try scarifying a few.
Scarification is not necessary for germination. Newer seeds (darker in color) will have higher germination rates, but even very old seeds (I'm talking more than three or four years old) can eventually germinate when under the right conditions. In my experience, the main factors are the type of soil and, of course, water.
Syrian rue seedlings are very sensitive to overwatering, excess humidity and particularly to soil fungi. Use sandy sterile soil, with good drainage, and make sure there is good airflow to avoid a too humid environment. The method of watering seems to be very important. Seedlings do not like getting their stems wet, and I found that moderate watering by pot immersion (or careful watering in the surface, avoiding to soak the seedling stem and the cotyledons) gives better results. Also, types of soil that stay moist for days are no good. allowing the surface of the substrate to dry between waterings will help them stay clear of fungi. Otherwise, as you described, the seedlings will fall over and die due to excess moisture in the young stem.
You can always dillute some copper fungicide (or hydrogen peroxide) into the irrigation water as prevention measure. Once the plants are past the seedling method, the survival rates increase notably.
Also, be careful with excess heat. Spring weather is most likely the ideal for syrian rue germination.
Good luck,
Mandrake
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The problem I ran into was that when they got a little over an inch tall they would fall over and the stem right above the root would be shriveled up. I managed to grow one of them into a small bush a little over a foot tall, but it ended up dying after a little over a year.
I'll have to give it a try again sometime soon paying more attention to the temp and possibly try scarifying a few.
Scarification is not necessary for germination. Newer seeds (darker in color) will have higher germination rates, but even very old seeds (I'm talking more than three or four years old) can eventually germinate when under the right conditions. In my experience, the main factors are the type of soil and, of course, water.
Syrian rue seedlings are very sensitive to overwatering, excess humidity and particularly to soil fungi. Use sandy sterile soil, with good drainage, and make sure there is good airflow to avoid a too humid environment. The method of watering seems to be very important. Seedlings do not like getting their stems wet, and I found that moderate watering by pot immersion (or careful watering in the surface, avoiding to soak the seedling stem and the cotyledons) gives better results. Also, types of soil that stay moist for days are no good. allowing the surface of the substrate to dry between waterings will help them stay clear of fungi. Otherwise, as you described, the seedlings will fall over and die due to excess moisture in the young stem.
You can always dillute some copper fungicide (or hydrogen peroxide) into the irrigation water as prevention measure. Once the plants are past the seedling method, the survival rates increase notably.
Also, be careful with excess heat. Spring weather is most likely the ideal for syrian rue germination.
Good luck,
Mandrake
I have tried many times to grow Rue but the results are always the same.
They get to maybe an inch in height and then die.
Maybe i can try again and use the advice you give.
I have thought that maybe they don't like the heat indoors, i have 25-28 degrees C inside.
Poppy seedlings are behaving about the same and in that case the indoor temps is to hot.
I think i give it another go as i have seeds left.
Lukas123
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I have thought that maybe they don't like the heat indoors, i have 25-28 degrees C inside.
That should not be too much in my experience. But the combination of excess humidity and water with a warm temperature will encourage fungi and molds, so if you have a warm indoor garden, take special care with water. Once the seedlings go past that initial stage, they show good survival rates.
One little hint that might help - If, in spite of being careful, some of them appear to start to fall over, try to help them stand up by carefully packing a little soil under the cotyledons. If the surface soil is not too moist, there's a fair chance they will recover and keep growing.
Good luck,
Mandrake
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Thank for the tip. That encouraged me to start a grow log in rue!
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Just got some rue seeds today, so i will definatly be using the tips on here
Thanks for this awesome website and community :)
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Thanks for the advice guys :)
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I have tryied cultivate. Some time after I give up..do not worked....I abandoned the pot...
Seeds germineted and the seedling grew with no care.
Now I do not know what to do to keep the plant.
Any advices?
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Let the soil dry, bc rue likes dry soil; give them plenty light.
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Just keep not caring, that's evident. I lost a few loved seedlings for what maybe was over caring. :)
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What would be a good soil mix to start these? I mix my own soils.
I've tried growing them before but couldn't get the seeds to germinate. I have difficulty starting small seeds in general but these seem to be particularly challenging. Now that I've found this thread, I plan to make another go with some fresh seeds I'll be receiving soon.
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I forget the exact ratio but I used a Coco, perlite, vermiculite mix with sand mixed in. I got past the seedling stage growing it in a greenhouse under a t5 light. I tried moving to a window sill and it just kind of stalled out then eventually withered away. Some notes.. I've read alkaline soil may be key.. I was going to try adding calcium carbonate pebbles to the mix next time as a buffer. Also I think whatever is used for soil needs to be very loose.. The roots don't penetrate well and I believe that is why I had marginal success with a Coco mix. Also I have seed which is 3 or 4 years old that still germinates.
(http://i.imgur.com/BR6JXOe.jpg)
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Some notes.. I've read alkaline soil may be key.. I was going to try adding calcium carbonate pebbles
That's different. I'll try again with an alkaline mix. Last time, I got them to germinate but they died back pretty fast. I don't have much patience for these plants but it bothers me that I haven't successfully grown them.
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It bothers me as well. I can't stand when indoor plant husbandry cannot provide an adequate environment to grow an "invasive species".
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My one remaining plant is doing well now. I haven't watered it in a very long time. Might be living on humidity.
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I'm guessing from where this plant originates and also flourishes that it has adapted to a wet season for germination and seedling stage, then a dry season for adult growth. I'd assume that was my flaw.. I kept treating it the same and it drowned.
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My one remaining plant is doing well now. I haven't watered it in a very long time. Might be living on humidity.
What humidity are you keeping it at? Where it is invasive it gets quite dry so I would assume older plants would like humidity lower. But whatever is working keep doing it by all means!
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The low success rate people are reporting might be due to an unusual soil type requirements for growing Peganum Harmala.
I personally have no experience germinating it yet (was thinking of doing it this year, though), but this is what I found on another forum:
"Syrian rue grows easily from seed sown in Spring, taking about two weeks to germinate. The plant self sows freely.
Soil should be fairly rich, sandy, and well drained. Full sun is required. The plants die back to the crowns every winter, and should be mulched where temperatures dip below 10 F. An alkaline pH between 7.3 and 8 is preferable."
(original thread: http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?/topic/12349-syrian-rue-the-mystery-of-its-successful-cultivation/)
P.S. BIG UP The Corroboree - great place with great people
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An alkaline pH between 7.3 and 8 is preferable."
That's why I figured calcium carbonate (crushed coral used in the aquarium hobby) would be a good soil additive. Lower PH water would gradually disolve it and buffer the PH. My saltwater aquarium had a PH of around 7.8. Also the type of sand used could be a factor. Most play sand available is silicate based.. and would not raise PH. If you could find calcium based sand (limestone) it would have the same effect. If the sand fizzes in vinegar it's of the limestone variety.
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I've had success with rue using half sand half rich but not peat based potting soil plus tons of perlite. Full sun. However they do great for two or so years but then peter out on me. Tried getting them started in ground here but they wouldn't sprout??? But the same batch of seeds easily sprouted in the mix above. Someday I'll try them again on our native soil. I think if I could get them going in ground then I may get seed producing large plants which would be awesome. Not like my caapi isn't a never ending source of the similar constituency but more variety to work with is always better.
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Like Biotopia said, it's weird we are having such problems growing an "invasive species" ;D ;D ;D
Found some more info on shroomery, it's something I didn't find before and seems interesting:
"I have grown Syrian rue successfully and it sounds like most people are having trouble with damping-off disease. This is caused by a variety of root fungus. Syrian rue is a dryland plant. Like many dryland plants it thrives on neglect. "
"Also, most potting soils are too heavy with peat and other water retaining substances. Use sand, gravel, and charcoal to help aerate the soil and drain in. Don’t be afraid to use fungicides...and remember the #1 rule of horticulture & agriculture, you can never have too much air circulation. Fungus loves still, stagnate; air; if in doubt increase air flow. Most plants are better a little drier rather than too wet. Remember, “Cold and wet will kill for sure, warn and wet is okay.” "
So this guy says some fungus is responsible for killing Rue plants. Sick!
Original post:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17542718#17542718
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This could possibly explain why alkaline soil helps.. It's not that the plant prefers it, but the fungus has problems growing in it.
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A few more texts I found, regarding the Peganum harmala germination.
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sheena_Jacob3/publication/215773425_Germination_Studies_in_Ochradenus_baccatus_Delite._Peganum_harmala_L._and_Gynandriris_sisyrinchium_Parl/links/0912f50ee524aaeb2f000000.pdf?inViewer=true&disableCoverPage=true&origin=publication_detail
http://herbalistics.com.au/peganum-harmala-syrian-rue-seed-germination-and-halopriming/
http://www.academicjournals.org/article/article1403279044_Narantsetseg.pdf
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BIG QUESTION:
Why this thread even exists?
P.harmala seeds germinate really well without any special treatment.
Just sow some on soil and water, that's all.
Isn't that the case for you??
I fed a few of its seeds to my Finch once,
later I found P.harmala plants growing under his cage.
And the soil under the cage "looked" dry (no watering).
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Looking into germination and growing of any plant from an experimental point of view is the only way to think of a proven "technique" for the particular plant we can use in the future. If we know the right technique already, that too should be discussed and standardized for the future.
But in the end it doesn't matter. If so many people found the topic interesting that they keep it going, the thread should be here. If not, no one will post and the thread will be forgotten. Also, there's a moderator. That's how forums work.
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No don't get me wrong,
I'm not saying it should be deleted or locked (that's funny)
I'm just shocked why people are discussing TEKs for this plant, which doesn't require any special procedure at all.
Since the only TEK it requires is "sow and mow"
I'm actually interested to know if that's not the case with you, (due to different zone, different strain, etc)
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No... Unfortunately it's quite rainy here last few summers. I'm sure they would germinate, but wouldn't survive long. That's what people report at least.
It's my wish to try it for years, though. Will probably give it a try under HPS soon and see how it goes.
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Here's my P.harmala seeds, all germinated using the old school sow and mow (not even burying needed)
The secret to keeping the seedlings alive:
reduce the soil moisture dramatically.
In it's native habitat, wild P.harmala seeds just receive 1 or 2 rainfalls at the start of spring, and then NOTHING.
You must mimic the same condition, or else they will get yellow and die.
If you do so, you too will enjoy the sight of their nice pine-ish leaves.