Share The Seeds
Gardening Area => Advanced Cultivation Techniques => Topic started by: BubbleCat on January 07, 2016, 06:48:01 PM
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I want a sturdy and practical hydroponic system.
So here comes a new small project:
I do want to go aeroponic because complicated is BC and also an aeroponic system will work with less fluids in it and I am kinda paranoid of leackage ruining all the house.
So far I have acquired:
plastic box with lid
10 spray nozzles
2 pumps
The idea is to layout a pattern for pots / styrofoam holders, spray nozzles and pickup tubes in the lid, cut that and reinforce the lid as the plants are supposed to grow heavy :)
The pickup and nozzles go through the lid because I want the actual box to remain intact, that way it stays universable usable and also I have less chance of leackage again as there will be no sealing holes and no structural weakening of the box. Also: Why fight gravity with the spray :)
I still need hosesof the right size and T / X pieces to connect several nozzles. I am not sure yet if I will use one or two pumps and how many nozzles I will use (a bit experimenting and calculating wont hurt here. Obviously the number of nozzles depends on the number of pumps and vice versa.
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When I start thinking about nozzle placement:
a nozzle can always serve at least two plants, but I have to place nozzles around the circumfence too, where half of the spray cone is wasted (hits wall) but I cant actually have 50% of a root ball dry.
I will draft and see how many pots that means.
Look at this one:
(http://howtogrowmarijuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/002%20aerponics%20system%20diagram.png)
IMO it is a bad design because: the two outer plants only get sprayed from one direction. I rather waste half a nozzle than half a plant :)
Check the attachement to see how I would intuitively layout pots and nozzles
its only 4 pots :( but they will get good spray. I will have one left over nozzle that maybe goes middle or for something else like automatic humidity lovers misting.
@#!$& !!! I messes the lid up. I was already thinking "this would feel way more comfortable if I drilled the holes" but I was unpatient so I tried to cut a hole with a knife. Lid wasnt actually as flexible as it seems and me trying to cut through resulted in a big long crack through half the lid. This isnt the structural integrity I was aiming for. I will have ro get a new lid soon and drill it.
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Do you really need to mist? ??? That will make the system...hum... complex.
Why dont you use expanded clay pebbles?
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because complex ? :)
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because complex ? :)
German technology at its best!
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All it took was a knife and some healthy impatience.
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I actually enjoyed doing this, kinda reminded me of my process for designing turbular exhaust headers. But even on 12 pots I never happened to run out of material... guess who bought too little hose and thus now cant fire it up right now :(
Well I dont have net pots / pool noodles yet anyways :)
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I have been playing with hydro/aquaponic set ups for years and I like your design but IME the dutch bucket systems grow the biggest plants and have the least issues.
http://www.hydroponics-simplified.com/hydroponic-drip-system.html
That being said, this setup would work great for compact plants like Lawrence Welk, so it really just depends on your needs.
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I moved it to a bathroom to testfire, based on a few negative experiences I have made. Also I have moved the pump into a seperate compartment so in case the pump itself or one of its connections leaks all is safely contained. I hope I can sound deaden the pumps compartment. Also I moved all electronics outside the pumps compartment so they wont be affected in case of leakage. I finally tuned the pumps voltage to certain requirements: Avoid harmonics in the system, nice spray pattern, no risk of hoses exploding and connections undoing, the pickup (silicone) hose must not crush.
What shall I say: Merry success ! The spray pattern is neat and even, the whole box is filled with a fine mist. Nothing leaks or breaks. Its a bit loud tho :)
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(http://multiponics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/DIYHPAK-2-1024x768.jpg)
Someone might be on something here. Waterproof electronics compartment. Just sound deaden with stabdard car material.
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4 holes needet ... mhmmm cut again and risk breaking or just go home and instruct a mill to do it with a rotary tool - decisions :(
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I have been playing with hydro/aquaponic set ups for years and I like your design but IME the dutch bucket systems grow the biggest plants and have the least issues.
http://www.hydroponics-simplified.com/hydroponic-drip-system.html
That being said, this setup would work great for compact plants like Lawrence Welk, so it really just depends on your needs.
I don't recall ever hearing that Aeroponics was better for compact plants before. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. :-\
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4 holes needet ... mhmmm cut again and risk breaking or just go home and instruct a mill to do it with a rotary tool - decisions :(
Shouldn't break if you use a hole saw for hard plastic and with adequate support. But isn't that the problem with DIY projects, more tool investments.
BTW, the system is looking great so far. :)
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4 holes needet ... mhmmm cut again and risk breaking or just go home and instruct a mill to do it with a rotary tool - decisions :(
Shouldn't break if you use a hole saw for hard plastic and with adequate support. But isn't that the problem with DIY projects, more tool investments.
BTW, the system is looking great so far. :)
Aha :D I believe im not short of any tool you could put into action here in any imaginable way, and many more ^^
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Since pro and con was discussed, my view:
As I see it, the aeroponic system (fogging) offers theese features:
Best oxygenation (largest surface area and faster cycling of the fluid)
Most responsive system (is good and bad, mostly bad as the plants doesnt worry much about getting its nutes adjusted a few minutes later but if the fogging fails for only a bit too long the plants die as there is nothing than the roots itself to hold at least some moisture, compared to utilizing some media like clay pellets or submerging the roots and only having the bubblers fail).
What else mhmmmm oh yeah it uses lowest fluid levels IMO, which means if it breaks the leackage will be smallest.
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I am done. At least the system arrived at the stage of development where it is usable. Improvements will include: A own hole for the pickup hose to go through and a aquarium heater. Maybe a fogger to be able to directly compare fogging / spraying. Thats it then.
Right now I'm just running it to experiment with the sound deadening of the pump and to flush it clean, so theres is 2 Liter of plain tap water with 2,4% H2O2 in it.
The spray pattern it the nozzles could be even wider / the nozzles put in higher or the pots deeper. But that doesnt matter much, the roots will grow down anywaysand the water already goes everywhere.
Update: I found out I am most likely going to move two nozzles (mid row, end positions) to the circumfence of the lid, spraying horizontally. That should get the plants served best when their roots do not extend deep down yet. (Last pic)
Happy.
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How cold is the water now? I always need to chill my water.
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You haven't mentioned a timer. Have you selected one?
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I have the 12 V timer I used on the DIY drip irrigation, now that its winter it is off duty so I will put it here and i will get a 2nd one before temperatures outside rise and id have to water everything daily.
(http://sharetheseeds.me/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2636.0;attach=14268)
The water is at room teperature. And the pump wont really change that, its air cooled and has low wattage anyways.
Uh and a switching power supply instead of a battery :D
Here btw, is a nice article describing what I unconsciously remembered / pieced together from certain assumptions and memories / felt: http://aeroponicsdiy.com/make-your-own-high-pressure-aeroponics-system/
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Small refinement / change:
I have moves two nozzles from the top to the sides so the pots will be misted all the way to the top. That is probably absolutely irrelevant after some time but at first it might help cuttings to establish.
A own hole for the pickup hose is still to be made, I guess that its a light form of the symmetry disorder that i cant decide on a place for it to go :D Also the thing surely would benefit if all hoses and the whole bucket was 100% light proof.
Also I found out the timer I have around has "only" 16 slots for programs. That makes a event every 1.5 hrs (evenly distributed over the day). That means I have it spray every 90 minutes now, which doesnt seem enough for me.
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I think they are not complicated so for a first experiment I took 4 cuttings from mentha (?) species that I found in the past. They came from outside, I washed them hoping I dont introduce insects inside and hope they'll make the transition from cold to warm just fine.
Lets see how this works out.
If someone can tell me what kind of menthae I found I'd be glad. I do know one is most likely peppermint, one spearmint, I think I even know a third one but only the common name. The one that I have no idea about is the big one.
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What cycle times do you plan to use and how is cycle time determined? ???
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Trial and error.
I dont plan on having the roots become actually wet, ever, as thats not the point of the system, I could just DWC or at least low pressure / faux aeroponics then.
So where I am heading too, but maybe until I get there the nozzles will be different, maybe there'll be a pressure reservoir and a solenoid valve ... 1 second or less mist time every few minutes. A simple delay timer with a NE555 could help shortening the minimum 1 minute of the timer to 1s. Also if I go there already I can simply hack up the whole timer myself so it does exactly what I want, the timer I am using is actually for more advanced purposes (day, time ... and so on) but doesnt offer the resolution needet.
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Its not spear mint. It could be pepper mint
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Its 4 different species :D I am absolutely sure I have 1 spicata and one piperita amongst them. Or are you referring to the 4th, the big one ? Im pretty sure its neither.
As far as I see it: True spicata: lower left corner, true piperita: upper right corner, lower right corner ... uff ... upper left corner: ?!? no idea
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In my care many Nepetoideae, especially Mentheae behave cheeky, if not truly savage.
It appears the humidity dome I used on top of a plant in the aeroponic bucket for experimental reasons had questionable effect. Maybe I should put the plant in upside down and all is fine ? :D
Oh and btw I found an unemployed air pump and two bubble stones. Obviously I cant go without bubbles so I am givi g them a quick H2O2 bath right now and will put them in soon, they should supply extra oxygenation during the 90 minute breaks.
Getting a 12 V switching power supply too as the battery is a kinda stupid temporary solution that comes with a hilarious maintainance procedure.
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Could this be mold ? I was once told that commonly white mold wont hurt plants.
I will H2O2 if it worsens.
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Could this be mold ? I was once told that commonly white mold wont hurt plants.
I will H2O2 if it worsens.
I always H2O2 it. Don't know what it is though. ???
It looks the same as the growth I've dealt with. If it is, it will spread. However, once it's gone, it's gone for a long time. :)
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I will consider this fast. But it doesnt say anything yet, only that the cutting was kept moist :D
Remaining curious if and when this will take off.
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Cant wait to get myself more into in depth hydro cumtivation as soon as I have time for that: http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2013/02/the-first-free-hydroponic-nutrient-calculator-program-o.html
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Tomorrow I will get a power supply for the pump. I hoped it would take longer, but: The battery I am using to power the pump already startes failing to supply the pump sufficiently. It is a funny coincidence that the battery also will, if I let it discjarge any further, fail to trigger the relais in the timer, effectively making it a deep discharge protection by accident.
Anyways, as I do not have a charger in this place the maintainance procedure usually consists of starting a motorcycle, installing the battery in it and taking the whole thing around town for a short time. From experience it is not the easiest thing to take at least the most cultivated bike in reach, the NA 1000 cc, around town on icy roads at night, in fact it takes an awefull lot of care and concentration. So I have switched the thing off and plan on hooking it up to the mains tomorrow. At te same time I will gain first experience how long it can remain ahut off. I believe it wont hit the plants too hard as the roots barely grow out of the clay pellets yet and said pellets retain some moisture. To further improve the situation until tomorrow I have switched on the bubble stones hoping they splash around a healthy amount of water or at least keep the air in the bucket humid.
I will use the opportunity of the pump not coming on to shorten the feed tube and use a part of it as a replacement for the weak silicone pickup tube.
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I am getting roots on all plants and some clay pellets tend to develop a white surface, I suspect some kind of harmless mold. As soon the plants have established I will H2O2 the water in the system hoping to effectively H2O2 the whole thing.
I have replaced the battery with a power supply that I connected to a wall outlet and turned it down a bit as the thing I always feared could happen happened: A hose came off a nozzle, spraying water everywhere. Luckily I was awake and watching the system work at that time so I could fix it right away. I am considering clamping the hoses on the nozzles.
One last change has to be done:
The pickup tube draws a little air sometimes, possible solution s include:
raise fluid levels
clamp or glue down tube
weight down front end of tube
design an actual pickup to sit in there and guarantee intake from the bottom most location.
One annoying thing: The pellets are too small or the pots mesh is too wide. When carelessly manipulating the pots pellets might drop out into the reservoir where they will find their way into the pickup (which doesnt have any kind of filter yet, luckily the pickup has the same dimension as common fuel lines).
So far so good :)
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Good point about the solid medium, but why not the smaller hole (not overall size) netty pot? I found tailoring the hole size on the pot to the smallest root size possible produced identically and were easier to handle.
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Well I went to the grow shop and said "netpot". Guy said "big or small". End of the story: I bought "big" net pots.
Consider the whole thing a mockup. I am curious about what and how and I am experimenting with a system that basically does the job to make exactly theese discoveries. So on the list for a final version there is smaller grid net pots or larger pellets now.
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Little update:
Work is over my head, yet I invested say 30 minutes to clean out the container (a lot of clay dust from the pellets), exchange the solution, raised it to ~500 micro Siemens, and unclogged a nozzle that had a plastic chip from the rough cutting work inside.
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Next time soak the clay pellets for about a week in neutral (pH 6.8 -7) water. This will remove all dust and prevent pH fluctuations later on. Lots of people (and package labels) say this is not needed but I have experienced other wise a couple times.
nobody
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What I already was concerned about seems to be happening:
As shown my timer switch is not actually limited, just not designed for such a simple task, so I only get to spray them all 90 minutes which might be too little. The roots tips start browning, I think I basically have aur pruning going on there. I do have hope that once the roots are more they will be able to hold water themselves, but on the long time I need a better (simpler) timing circuit.
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It has always been an issue and right now I do not have the time or ressources to fix it: The thing is slowly ruining my floor by never really stopping to spill tiny amounts of water. This can be fixed.
So right now I am deciding if I just let it, as I will be doing the floor anyways already, or move it to the bathroom and employ the grow lamp on its behalf or idk.
Judging by the temperatures this "winter" it could even go outside.
Update: The containers stack. So I can have the electrics in a container under the actual one and if any the electrics will get a bit wet. Lets see hiw that does :D
Another update: It is definately the wrong time, as I am too busy otherwise, and the wrong place for this experiment. Besides not having time I do not have the ressources to make the necessary improvements in this place. The light is too low at this time of the year. The risk and potencial damage is too high, it already happened twice that a nozzle clogged and a hose came loose, in both cases it was luck I was near. The experiment is on a hold, I will find a way to enable the cuttings to sustain and will refine the design as soon as I have time and can reside in the place where I have the ressources and a more duravle environment.