Print

[Radium]

I have a hard time deciding when/where to use which of these:
- in
- on
- at

Please tell me a clear guideline to understand each one's proper usage and place.

[BubbleCat]

well my uneducated (that is a fact) guess would be:

locally:
in is when something is contained, meaning the place something is in surrounds it in all dimensions
on is when something is ontop of something
at in my opinion means either close by or next to something

then theres other cases where it appears less simple but when making things imaginary places it appears to work again, despite some things like "on the internet" are strange but maybe that derives from "on line".

If I started to ask all my grammar questions ... oh boy but I think now I will go inside of me and try to remember my ... ah there my favourite is

"a" or "an"

basically simple depends on wether the following noun begins with a vovel (?) or not ... a mouse an arch ... but a / an anarchist mouse & a / an massive archer ? edit: Arch I mean Arch
in my feeling it then depends on the first letter of the adjective ?

[Radium]

A is replaced with An before vovel words, to make the pronunciation easier, since it's hard to pronounce an empty vovel ("a") before another vovel.
So I guess "a massive archer" would be the correct form.


Regarding my problem:
I get confused about places, for example when I want to tell someone my current or past or future place:

• I live in/at antarctica.
• I'm in/at the club.
• I'm sitting in/on the bus.
• etc

[BubbleCat]

in antarctica, you could aay my basic rule applies as kontinents amd espcially nations and states arent considered 2 dimensional but have certain depth. So basically once youre in antarctica it completely surrounds you, youre "in".

Youre in the club if youre inside a building, again the club surrounds you, youre at the club if the bouncer jus kicked you out.

You are on the bus (for some reason) but you sit in the bus. Yeah thats one of theese exceptions, being "on" a vehicle or trip.

From my perspective you are part of etc does that make you be "in" etc nah more youre "with etc" with the others.

Update: we are two blind helping each other cross the street.

1 Like Radium likes this.

[Radium]

Looks like the only way for figuring those damn exceptions is through pure memorization

BTW, I've heard almost all Scandinavians know English well, is that true?
And if so, how did those nations achieve that? through what kind of policy?
I believe that nations with the most number of English-knowing people, progress much faster than others, and also improve culturally.

Another fact that I admire west for it, is the spirit of teaching through writing.
I see many books in English, from lifting, to carpentry, chemistry, even fishing or masonry, you name it.
But here, aside from poems and science books, our master individuals don't bother to write down their knowledge/skills, and simply suffice to pass it verbally to a few apprentices, and even while doing that, they do it sparingly and incomplete, because they're afraid of the apprentices becoming better than them, thus harming their financial security.

BTW, I have problem over choosing between it/that too.

Example:

• and even while doing that, they do it sparingly and incomplete
• and even while doing it, they do that sparingly and incomplete
• and even while doing that, they do that sparingly and incomplete
• and even while doing it, they do it sparingly and incomplete

[BubbleCat]

Well in that case idk if you think "cultural improvement" = "cultural loss", so to say as if all culture was bad, like culture in the terms of tradition.
The scandinavian countries have a elaborate school system and maybe a you ger population. I think amongst youngsters today speaking english is not a question anymore so those figures will highly depend on birth rates, as old man joe will probably not learn english anymore. And didnt back then when in his favourite dancing location there was a sign "Swing tanzen verboten ! - Die Reichkulturkammer"
So yeah, school system, birth rates and probably interest and either being "the west" or not caring about old structures that btw (two power poles) were replaced by a complexer system of international "power centers" long ago.
Here they write lots of books, many of them get then translated into english which is funny when I read english engineering literature and realise its a translation that im translating back same with lots of other stuff they dont seem to pioneer elsewhere, but little to nothing on computers and softwares basics here, elaborate theoretical things then again yes.


Id go with "it" in those cases but maybe it needs a full sentence to decide.

Update, a post came in between: some (US) 'murricans (except george bush) dunno english ?

[Radium]

Hier jetzt so etwas wie RKK brauchen wir,
 Ich sage nicht, bewundern ihre böse und böse taten und ideen überhaupt, aber ihre feste und starke willenskraft,
 wir stark fehlt willenskraft hier. 

Wir haben eine sehr junge bevölkerung als auch, und in der regel mit hohem IQ, aber das schulsystem ist so konzipiert, um sie zurück zu setzen und sie verlangsamen, über sie zu zwingen, so viele unnötige dinge, die sie nie im leben brauchen zu lernen.
Hohe IQ menschen neigen dazu, zu problemen führen, wenn sie etwas zeit bekommen, so ist es besser, sie mit etwas beschäftigt zu halten.

When I said culture, I meant the general logic and intellectualism of the people.
The understanding required for every citizen to learn, for making a better more civil society.
For example not throwing trash on the ground, or making fun of people who look different, or not staying at the window all day and night, to observe and spy the activity of all neighbors.

Among other not-so-cultural (not-so-civil you call it?) acts they do, I can point to these:

• Staring to women who dress just a little more open, with straight non-stop highly uncomfortable gaze. Just imagine that you're a girl and almost all men on the street are looking at you like Tarzan, raping you in their minds.
• Leaving trash everywhere they step, from city to wilderness, leaving everywhere very ugly and dirty, especially the wild (tragic).
• Paying more attention to the dead than the living, to the extent of even annoying/harming the living over respecting the dead. For example, we have many funerals here when someone dies: the first day, third day, seventh day, 40th day, 365th day, and then later every anniversary that comes.
• The relatives wear black cloths and refuse to trim their hairs and face until the 40th day funeral is passed. Oh and they arrogantly require everyone else to do the same too, at least for the first week. It's a traditional ritual for showing you're drown in grief so much, that you forgot to care for your looks anymore.
• Today I was nearly killed over visiting my uncle's sister-in-law's (who I had never met) 365th day funeral. The funeral was held in a remote far location, with shitty dangerous roads full of crazy suicidal truck drivers, and full of holes and trenches. You read that right, a living person was nearly killed over a dead person.

I've sworn to break these non-sense traditions from today, and do not follow them anymore, I don't care if anyone gets upset at me anymore.
Oh and did I tell at each funeral, the relatives of the dead must feed a luxury lunch to the visiting people?
I lost both my parents last year, and didn't even get a second to grief, because I was arranging the ridiculous funeral from the very first moment they died.

[BubbleCat]

*wow* you must live in heaven ... 40 days excuse for the beard !

In the end I think theres a lot of exceptions in english grammar, those are usually the hard part you just have to learn, but then again, luckily its not the german articles kind of weird exceptions.

[New Wisdom]

Bubble cat.  Saying I'm in the club and I'm at the club means the same thing.  Doesn't matter if you were just kicked out or not.  They are basically just two different ways of saying the same thing. They're pretty much interchangeable.   Although in is a more specific way of saying you are literally inside of something.

And on doesn't particularly mean on top. Most of the time it does, but it can also just mean you are near something or inside of something.  You can even say "I'm on my way to the club." Which means you are traveling there.   But now that's getting into the realms of idioms and what not.

This is at least how it works in day to day conversation.   

2 Likes BubbleCat and Radium like this.

[BubbleCat]

"Well screw this people get me and over time i'll adapt more."

^^ Luckily this is true for all of these.small differences. Lol.

As a native English speaker, I have no idea what the specific rules. But I know what we say, and imagine it would be quite confusing without much exposure. Often more than one word would be used interchangeably, like New Wisdom said, but luckily it still makes sense even if you use one that isn't typical. 

From the OP, both the second and third example either choice would be correct and typical.

For a geographical location like a city, country, continent etc we'd always say "in." So, "I live in Antarctica" and "I live in Madrid."

More specific structures go back to "in" or "at," like "I live in the apartment" and ""I live at the apartment" both would be typical. 

1 Like Radium likes this.

[Frog Pajamas]

Well, shoot. I meant to qoute BubbleCat above and instead accidentally modified his post! 

So the post two above mine that says BubbleCat I accidentally wrote over his post. 

Sorry BubbleCat!

2 Likes BubbleCat and Radium like this.

[BubbleCat]

That might just make me appear more skilled in the english language !

[New Wisdom]

I'm in the club is more of a colloquialism meaning "a part of something" or "part of an organization".
I'm at the club is more of a literal sentence.
For example;
I'm in the mile high club.
I'm at the mile high club.
Very different meanings since the first sentence infers extra information and the second sentence can be just a literal sentence.

When you're saying you're in the club meaning an organization of course it'll have a different meaning than a difference sentence where club means a literal location.  When they are both locations they mean the same thing though. It's a little bit less specific whereas "in the club" means you're literally inside of it and not just a general location

Say someone asks you where you are and you respond.

"I'm in the club."  or "I'm at the club." 

Which both mean the same thing.  The first sentence could be if the other person is outside of the club asking you where you are and you specify you are inside the club.  The second one would be used more often if they have no idea where you are.

When you switch up the meaning of the noun of course it's going to change the meanings of in and at.  With your examples the word "in" basically meant "a part of" and "at" meant your location.  With my examples both of them were referring to location.

[New Wisdom]

Let me switch it up a bit. Club is confusing because it can mean a location and also an organization.  Let's use the word bathroom.

"I'm in the bathroom." Would mean you're in the bathroom doing whatever it is people do in those things. Specifically you're inside of the bathroom.

"I'm at the bathroom." kind of means the same thing, but I've never heard people using that term.  Unless you're using it like Bubblecat mentioned earlier. Meaning you're outside of the bathroom waiting in line or something. "I'm waiting in line at the bathroom."

1 Like BubbleCat likes this.

[Radium]

Sorry guys, but I still that makes me burn too much ATP to decide the right one 
So I keep using them randomly, haha 

1 Like New Wisdom likes this.