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Author Topic: Procedural Poppy Popping  (Read 91 times)

Sore

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Procedural Poppy Popping
« on: October 12, 2017, 08:05:58 pm »

I apologise for the title  ::)


Tend to ramble a fair bit so I will skip that to the best of my ability and get to the point, I purchased a poppy seed set (containing 9 types: Black, California, Danish Flag, Flanders, Giant Pod, Greek Red, Peshawar, Turkish Red and last but not least Zahir) and would like to give them the best chance possible to flower but also produce more seeds so that I may share them with others while having enough for future plants as this seed pack cost a little shy of $50 AUD and only contained 100-300 of each variant.


I am located in Queensland, Australia which I'm certain will cause some complications at some point but am more than happy to endure after looking at some images of these beautiful specimens, mainly the Danish Flag, Zahir, California and Peshawar.


Love the idea of making poppy bread not to mention how happy it might make our bee's of which we have a fair few visiting from time to time!


Did a brief comparison of the info that was provided with the seeds and there seems to be conflicting information, not saying that they are wrong however I won't provide the website/company that I ordered through unless asked in private or later information helps clarify just because I don't wanna spread misinformation or damage any reputability.


Any and all information or questions are appreciated, factual, trivial or otherwise please don't hesitate to put in your 2cents  :)

Thanks in advance, Sore.
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Inyan

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Re: Procedural Poppy Popping
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 02:23:44 am »

I'm not an expert when it comes to poppies. I have grown them in Belgium and the USA. With that being said, I personally till up the soil a few weeks prior to wanting to plant them. I then till again right before spreading my seed out. I just toss it in the air and where it lands it lands. I will be planting my poppy seed in the next few weeks. Mine always seem to sprout right after a cold spell. If it is too warm the seeds don't germinate for me.
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LIBERTYNY

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Re: Procedural Poppy Popping
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 05:25:08 am »

 Sounds like horizon herbs/Strictly medicinal seed stock  (great vendor)

  Your first issue is you have two different poppy types  P Somn and E Cali.
  Of the P Somn's you have albms/whites and blacks,  The whites have a slightly shorter growing season  but tend to be more tolerant of frosts.

  Im not familiar with your climate,  But plenty of poppy is grown in Aus and Taz,  your best bet is to look at their tech's and copy.

 With P somn's you almost always want to start as early as possible as they are short season crops, most people have trouble getting them to a decent size.

  Commercial farmers direct seed their crops, a few 1000 seeds is not much at all to direct seed especially with no poppy skills (yet).   Your best bet for a first time are 'peat pellets' or peatpots' as its a simple method (but has serious draw backs)

  For direct seed you will want to till/turn the earth first, or else germination is unlikely to occur at all

  I would go to the grocer and buy some bulk seed to experiment with direct seeding, and save the vendor seed for starts.

  As far as seed saving,  Your getting ahead of your self.   Rember P Somn's can cross pollinate so they must be spaced properly I find it eazyer to just grow 1 variety at a time to avoid crossing issues and genetic bottle necks, as seed saving is about more than being cheap,  its about preserving the genetics and improving the line's.   and being cheap.


 
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LIBERTYNY

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Re: Procedural Poppy Popping
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 05:54:17 am »

  The university of Tasmania and Australia, have agriculture programs dealing with poppy, for medical purposes and oil seed,  their are Many documents dealing with poppy to be found in the document archives.
  I suspect if you have a college cridentals (spelling) and log in,  their would be a gold mine of info avaible like any other state university has for other ariculture purposes
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Sore

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Re: Procedural Poppy Popping
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 07:03:42 pm »

I have grown them in Belgium and the USA. Mine always seem to sprout right after a cold spell. If it is too warm the seeds don't germinate for me.

Do you remember the type you were growing or the hardiness zone/temperature you were growing in at the time?

Very jealous that you've been to Europe and the USA so much history and culture in comparison to Australia.
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Sore

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Re: Procedural Poppy Popping
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 07:52:43 pm »


Sounds like horizon herbs/Strictly medicinal seed stock  (great vendor)

Im not familiar with your climate,  But plenty of poppy is grown in Aus and Taz,  your best bet is to look at their tech's and copy.

  Commercial farmers direct seed their crops, a few 1000 seeds is not much at all to direct seed especially with no poppy skills (yet).   Your best bet for a first time are 'peat pellets' or peatpots' as its a simple method (but has serious draw backs)

 For direct seed you will want to till/turn the earth first, or else germination is unlikely to occur at all

 As far as seed saving,  Your getting ahead of your self.   Rember P Somn's can cross pollinate so they must be spaced properly I find it eazyer to just grow 1 variety at a time to avoid crossing issues and genetic bottle necks, as seed saving is about more than being cheap,  its about preserving the genetics and improving the line's.   and being cheap.

Good guess  ;D

I heard good things about them but icing on the cake was the guaranteed fertile or free replacement but with 100-300 seeds per pack its a win-win for both in my opinion.

If you feel inclined you can have a look at the hardiness zone I'm located in and the climate averages:
(Located in Brisbane if I haven't already said)
https://www.greenharvest.com.au/SeedOrganic/ClimateZones.html
https://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/climate_averages/climate-classifications/index.jsp?maptype=tmp_zones#maps

Quite humid and hot at the moment so I will need to look into replicating their natural environment which I'm sure is easier said than done and am unsure if such a thing is possible without expensive equipment etc.

I've wanted to grow and collect them for such a long time but was concerned that importing them would come with it's own issues (I didn't research much past trying to source them and looking at pretty pictures  :-[ ).

I will refrain from asking too many questions as I'm sure the answers are out there if I look, but do you know how big of a problem cross pollination is?

For example, If I had some in the front yard and some in the back would there be an issue with pollen sticking to my clothes or blowing in the wind?

Yeah, I tend to think 9 steps ahead and then get distracted on step 2 with something pretty along the way (perfect example being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitalis) resulting in a huge waste of time and re-planning.

The amount of seeds I have sitting in my desk is mildly disturbing to me even though I know it isn't all that much.

Probably a pipe dream/stupid idea but I have an empty in ground pool that I've been itching to do something with, first thing that comes to mind is filling it full of beautiful danish flags.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 08:14:50 pm by Sore »
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I get a feeling of fulfilment and purpose with the help of nature and the creatures that inhabit it.

Sore

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Re: Procedural Poppy Popping
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 08:13:06 pm »

 
  The university of Tasmania and Australia, have agriculture programs dealing with poppy, for medical purposes and oil seed,  their are Many documents dealing with poppy to be found in the document archives.
  I suspect if you have college credentials and log in, there would be a gold mine of info available like any other state university has for other ariculture purposes

I can think of someone that may be able to get me access to some information, cheers for jogging my memory!

If I come back with any valuable information nuggets I'll be sure to let you know.

Thanks for those links and articles you provided by the way I appreciate it.
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LIBERTYNY

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Re: Procedural Poppy Popping
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2017, 07:22:06 am »

  The thing about 'poppys natural environment'  is most people think its the jungle  or the hot dessert.

 Im not quite sure how to compare your climate to ours hear,  But poppy is not to picky as long as the temps are not extremes,  think of it as a typical 'cool weather crop' like broccoli.
  As seedlings they can withstand frosts and even freezes, but once they are a few inches tall they will die with a freeze,  I have never seen a plant die from heat 100F+  but apparently its possible.

   The picture of taz, below indicates where they grow it commercially,  It looks not to different from your climate
 
  One thing to keep in mind is the photoperiod, as it flowers when the days are long - see attached document.


  Papaver S usually self pollinates, many times even before the sepals even open! !   But not always.   If you grow 2 varietys side by side and save seed chances are some will have crossed.
   When saving seed and growing more than 1 varity of plants that self pollinate's you will want to space them at very least 200'+   and grow buffer plants at the edge of the gardens, that flower at the same time, that way the bee's/insects will have brushed of much of the pollen.


   Poppy: The Genus Papaver (Medicinal and Aromatic Plants - Industrial Profiles),  A awesome book

---    h__p://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=F7CCB1ED8ADEB7E1B68E4BBAAC48D346

 

   
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Sore

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Re: Procedural Poppy Popping
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 10:58:11 pm »

Just a small update, I took 15 or so of the Black, Giant and Californian seeds then placed them separately between some moist paper towels in zip-lock bags for about 3-5 days.

Got home yesterday, Lo and behold they've all popped and are growing rapidly!

Will be taking your advice plan on going with either peat pellets or the like.

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LIBERTYNY

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Re: Procedural Poppy Popping
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 02:04:45 am »

  Paper towel method for poppys seed is not recommended, as the seed has a fragile taproot, breaking it usually means death.

 I would transplant As Soon As Possible, to avoid trouble.

Im under the impression you also started to late,  If they flower around november in your area, then you will see seedlings about 1 inch tall with a tinny flower
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