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Author Topic: Henbane and poppy  (Read 3653 times)

Greench

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Henbane and poppy
« on: March 02, 2015, 03:07:30 pm »

Hello folks!

The 20-25°C moist paper towel which works fine for me usually doesn't seem to be working with henbane and poppy.
Would anyone have advice for the germination of these seeds?

Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 05:42:36 pm by Greench »
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BubbleCat

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Re: Henbane and poppy
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2015, 03:47:55 pm »

Dont paper towel any poppies unless you check the towel really frequently, they root quickly and tend to not like a forced seperation from the towel. Also 20 - 25 degrees is way too high for good rates in most poppies, altho its highly dependant on the species and also the climate the parent plant grew in. The same P. Somniferum grown in N-Africa and Sweden for a few generations for example will show great difference in peak-germination-rate-temperature.

IMO: Sow your poppies (I guess its Somniferum) either in the place you want them to sit in finally, or choose a LARGE and especially DEEP pot and sow only a few, or you'll be thinning them alot (wich always is an ethical problem to me I feel so like Hitler when thinning plants :( )

With mild winters you can try to sow them in fall and they'll have a good head start. They can even be sown on snow in winter but I have better experience with sowing them after last frost, most will germinate at around 15 C (highly dependant, some sooner some later). Also keep in mind a few seeds will germinate at random times the year round and poppies have been observed to take about 3 years to germinate with rates around 90 % - I imagine this is a survival strategy, if the crop is destroyed two years in sucession theres still chances the population will show up again. This indicates a multiple dormancy could be present in some seeds.

If you think its worth it or you dont plan on sowing many you can even soak the seeds in water, some will already start germinating in the water after a few hours and it does even work to let them germinate in water as long as theres a strong bubbler ensuring they dont hook up to each other.

Another method thats similar to paper towel but wont affect the roots negatively is to sow in agar or similar, agar without nutritional value wont need sterilisation or a cover, a petry dish (or whatever) full of agar with the seeds sprinkled or arranged on top works good and is used in most Papaver germination studies. (Obviously they must be transplanted before they die, since the pure agar isnt prone to rot its no problem to transplant a healthy portion of it with the plant.

Henbane: You will have to wait for someone else to comment on this but my guess is the same again: Too warm, literature indicates that Henbane did very well in continental europe for a long time, the temperature in central E. go at least close to 0 if nor below freezing. Chances are that it needs stratisfication or at least germinates in the cold to have a full growing season, when exposed to humidity the first time in warm temperatures it will remaind dormant and rather wait for the next season, so it wont flower too late and not be pollinated anymore or even freeze to death before flowering.

1st photo is P. Setigerum germinating in a 1:1:1 mix of perlite vermiculite and sphagnum for  hydroponics experiments :) germinated ~ 15 ish

2nd photo is (transplanted ^^ ) P. Rhoeas (or Dubium, I found them when already dead so hard to tell until I see them alive) germinated in a realm of approx. 10/5 day/night) still some germinating (as stated above in 3 years this will still happen even if they arent allowed to self sow.

3rd photo shows Meconopsis Aculeata germinated in the same 10/5 on a top sowing layer of coarse sand.

4th photo shows seeds in agar without cover / sterilisation whatsoever - its not my photo.

All temps are in C. Lower the temperature and dont be in a hurry, some germinate on the first day, some like to take a month or two. Most are delicated about root disturbance so repot carefully or sow in situ.

Maybe you should clean up your list of species the towel method works for, afaik it is general consensus on here that we don't want to mention certain species as there is already enough forums dedicated to them and also they draw heaps of attention, We don't trade them either.

Edit: Popppppieeeeessssssss !!!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 04:51:38 pm by BubbleCat »
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chamomeleon

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Re: Henbane and poppy
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2015, 05:37:08 pm »

Aaaaand I just saved all of BubbleCats post.  ;D  Good advice for later endeavors!
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Greench

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Re: Henbane and poppy
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 05:45:18 pm »

Thanks a lot.  :)
I will try lower temps and straight in soil.
I edited my first post as suggested.
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Sunshine

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Re: Henbane and poppy
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 06:35:56 pm »

I haven't read Bubble's post yet so forgive me if I repeat some of what he said.

I have heard(and ime) it is best to plant them directly in the ground where you intend on growing them in sandy soil high in nitrogen. I used very sandy topsoil mixed with cow poop. They seemed to really like that. Cover them with just a few grains of sand and plant in patches. When they're small they seem to do a lot better with buddies next to them to support their delicate root system. Once they are a couple few weeks old you can start thinning out the smaller/weaker ones so that the others can grow out bigger without being hindered. Keep them moist and warm. Direct sun is preferable. They need a lot of root space so planting them in pots will stunt them. The smaller the pot the worse the stunting will be. I dug up a plant one year and while the tap root didn't extend that far down, but it grew horizontally 4+ feet! So they defiantly need a LOT of root space.
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BubbleCat

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Re: Henbane and poppy
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 07:46:29 pm »

Yeap, its due to the ease and the delicate roots that "toss 'n' grow" is highly favourised as long one does not have special intentions. Also most first timers will find indoor grows way more difficult than outdoors. I'm with sunshine here, if you have the patience wait for frost to go, prepare a nice patch (there is a perfect soil but the poppy isn't picky at all so don't worry, just work the ground deep), sow your seeds, water and see them growing. Make sure you remove weeds. In good condition the whole turnaround time of the poppy is 90 days.
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Roze

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Re: Henbane and poppy
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 09:11:40 pm »

Nice tips bubble!  ;)

About the Henbane it will need a previous cold stratification, but dont worry, is an easy procedure.
 Put seeds in water and store in fridge for two weeks, changing water daily (this leaches out anti-germination chemicals). Then sow to germinate ( 9 /15 days ) at room temperature. You can also cold stratify by folding them into a paper towel that has been wet and wrung out; put that in a baggie, and put in fridge for two weeks. Then sow. Be careful not to overwater, because this plant is prone to damping off. Transplant when they get two inches tall to a sunny, sandy and alkaline soil . It can be grown in a pot, but it will stay quite small. In the ground, it gets tall enough to flop over. Water when the soil is dry, but give a bit more water when they are flowering.

Good luck! :)
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Radium

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Re: Henbane and poppy
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 03:21:38 pm »


IMO: Sow your poppies (I guess its Somniferum) either in the place you want them to sit in finally, or choose a LARGE and especially DEEP pot and sow only a few, or you'll be thinning them alot (wich always is an ethical problem to me I feel so like Hitler when thinning plants :( )

Hahahahahaaaa! I just LOLed a lot after reading that :D

I also hate thinning seedlings, it feels/is like murder.

Damn the Italic sentence is a DeJavu :O
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OrgBot

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Re: Henbane and poppy
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2015, 03:59:17 pm »


IMO: Sow your poppies (I guess its Somniferum) either in the place you want them to sit in finally, or choose a LARGE and especially DEEP pot and sow only a few, or you'll be thinning them alot (wich always is an ethical problem to me I feel so like Hitler when thinning plants :( )

Hahahahahaaaa! I just LOLed a lot after reading that :D

I also hate thinning seedlings, it feels/is like murder.

Damn the Italic sentence is a DeJavu :O

Agreed. It's even worse when they get bigger (like when u gotta pull '6-inchers' out) and you know that thinning them further and giving them even more room will produce a much healthier plant, but it's gotta be done.
It kills me a little bit each time. As if I got sprayed with Round-Up. LOL
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EVENEVE

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Re: Henbane and poppy
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2019, 01:35:01 pm »

awwww me too.... just wondering.... if anyone knows...why my more crowded poppies got a terrible rot situation and fell off their roots....xxxx Catara
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